How A Nightlife Photographer Invented A Proposal Planning Business In New York

A musician’s tour, a borrowed camera, and a rowboat on Central Park’s lake: that’s the unlikely path that led Ash Fox from nightlife photography to building a full-service proposal planning studio in New York. This interview digs into how a niche chose her, why proposals feel more honest than weddings, and the exact steps that turn a fantasy location into a smooth, unforgettable yes.

Fox breaks down the difference between a proposal photographer and a proposal planner, and why most couples actually need both. She shares candid stories about early gear mistakes, the collapse of the rock revival scene, and the moment she realized proposals required coaching, logistics, and decoys as much as lenses and light. You’ll hear how she guides clients away from crowded icons like the Brooklyn Bridge into vantage points that protect privacy, control timing, and preserve the surprise. We also explore how Instagram and TikTok changed expectations, when to add video, and how to build decor that matches the couple’s personality rather than chasing trends.

With more than 3,000 engagements planned and photographed, Fox offers practical advice on booking timelines, private rooftops, and what to do when your partner plans everything. She’s frank about viral “no” videos, why they’re often staged, and the real markers that a relationship is ready for marriage.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 1:21 From Art School To Nightlife Photography
• 4:20 Learning On Tour Without A Camera
• 8:28 Gear Lessons And Early Breaks
• 11:23 Scene Shift And Career Burnout
• 16:05 Pivot To Families And Corporate Gigs
• 20:35 First Proposal In Central Park
• 24:39 Realizing The Power Of Proposals
• 27:30 Defining Proposal Photographer Vs Planner
• 31:45 Coaching Clients And Rethinking Locations
• 36:12 Building Venues, Decor, And A Team

Transcript

Erin Manning: 0:01

Welcome to the Dead Pixels Society Podcast, the photoimaging industry's leading news source. And here's your host, Gary Pageau. The Dead Pixels Society Podcast is brought to you by Mediaclip, Advertek Printing, and Independent Photo Imagers.

Gary Pageau: 0:18

Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixels Society Podcast. I'm your host, Gary Pageau, and today we're joined by Ash Fox, who is the founder of Ash Fox Proposals, a business based in New York City that provides professional photography services and proposal things for getting engaged. So I'm like really intrigued by this. So Ash, welcome to the show. Good to see you.

Ash Fox: 0:42

Thank you, Gary. It's an honor to be here

Gary Pageau: 0:44

Tell me about getting started in professional photography, because that led to the proposal business. So where did that start and what drove your interest in that?

Ash Fox: 0:57

Oh, I'm happy to share. Well, I, yes, I'm a photographer. I started as a photographer. And the funny thing is, I'm a very unlikely photographer, and I'm an unlikely person also to be in the wedding industry for many different reasons. Um, but to start off, I went to school, I studied art, I took one photography class in school, a film photography class. And I'm telling you, Gary, if we had not entered the world of digital photography, I would never have been a photographer. I never would have been. Because the film photography class, it was so romantic to me to be able to be in that. It was like a fantasy of mine to develop your own film. But once I actually did it, I'm like, I'm allergic to the chemicals. I'm happy that I already have allergies as it is. You don't know if the pictures are gonna come out. And I'm like, I hate this. And so that was like my least favorite class I took. Funny enough, I ended up becoming a photographer. So after school, I was just doing all kinds of creative freelance work while I was in school and after school. And a friend was doing really elaborate photo shoots because he was a musician and he was kind of starting like a pop music career. And I said to him Justin Timberlake. Could have been, no, I'm not that old. It could have been Justin Bieber, but no, I'm not that old. I'm right in between those two generations. Um, but he he was a really good friend. He has actually has a career in in Japan, and he said to me, Um, so we were talking about it, and I'm like, why don't you just buy a really fancy camera? I'll figure it out. And I'm like, I'll just take your pictures for you. So he ended up doing that. He buys the high-end camera. I'm playing around with it. And then he is like, you know, why don't you come on tour with me? He was doing this like tour of um malls and cool stuff for, you know, to get seen by a lot of kids. And so I went with him. And that's really where I learned how to compose and shoot because every night I was shooting. So my first, my first job, my first time doing photography really was a job. And then simultaneously at the same time, I had a very, I got a very funny, one of my odd jobs was a friend who is a rock and roll DJ in New York City. He asked me to be a dancer for one of his new parties. And I was like, dancer. I'm like, go, go dancer. I was like, oh, I don't know if that's, you know, that's my thing. And he was like, no, you can just wear what you normally wear. You don't have to wear like booty shorts or anything. I'm like, okay, I'll take the job. Um, so I'm doing this job for a month, and I there was a girl doing photography, and I was like, Kel, I could do her job because she was leaving. And he was like, All right, you're on. So he gave me his camera. And so I started shooting. And so my first two photography jobs, I didn't even have a camera for the longest time. I just was borrowing cameras and I was learning as I went. So I got hired and then I learned on the job. And what ended up happening was it was so amazing, Gary, because I found I was a big rock and roll fan and a big music fan. And I always wondered, like, how I'm not a musician, like, how would I fit in this world? And then when I became a photographer and I was actually in the mix of all this, like photographing musicians, um, the party that we did had all kinds of famous musicians come through. Debbie Harry, um, Z Z Top came through, John Legend, the guy from The Killers. Um, yeah, it was really, really cool. And so you're I'm around all this and I'm photographing people. And then I got um an award like best nightlife photographer in New York City, and it started affirming me, being like, oh, maybe this is the path forward for me. I'm gonna be like a music photographer, I'm gonna go on tour, I'm gonna work for Rolling Stone, you know, or spin.

Gary Pageau: 4:32

Right, yeah, yeah.

Ash Fox: 4:33

You know, I start getting press passes to my favorite bands, and it was, it was just it was such a weird.

Gary Pageau: 4:38

You never own a camera at that point.

Ash Fox: 4:40

I didn't even own a camera, Gary.

Gary Pageau: 4:43

Okay.

Ash Fox: 4:44

It took like a whole another year for me to buy a camera. I was feeling like, okay, I think I need to buy a camera now because this is becoming real. So I bought my first camera. I think it was a Nikon D7, I think it was Nikon D7500. Do you know that camera? That was my first one. It wasn't full frame. Um, it was a crop frame, but it did me well. I I remember, I remember going to BNH, you know, BNH photo. Of course, yeah. Of course, you know it. Okay, in New York. And I'm like, all right, what lens should I get? And this guy behind the camera, you know, orthodox guy, um, he's like, he's like, this is the money lens. And he gives me like a 50 millimeter. He's like, this is the money lens. You'll make all your money from this one lens.

Gary Pageau: 5:26

From a 50 millimeter lens, yeah, 50 millimeter 1.4.

Ash Fox: 5:29

He's like, this is the money lens.

Gary Pageau: 5:31

So we get to even know what you were shooting, because that's that's an interesting choice for a rock and roll photographer. That's an interesting choice.

Ash Fox: 5:40

I ended up, oh my god, I can you, I can go real deep into the things that I bought and the mistakes I made in what I bought. Um, that was a lesson I had to learn the hard way. I actually bought, funny enough, I'll just share with you, I bought a somehow I was convinced to buy a 70 to 200 Sigma lens. I get the lens, Gary. The lens is defective and I don't know it. And I just blamed it on myself. I'm like, I'm a new photographer, I don't know what I'm doing. It turned out it was defective. And I had this lens, that's where you could return it. Right. So anyway, I learned the hard way. You gotta like really know you need a lens before just dropping a whole bunch of money on something. So um, but anyway, back to my story. That's how it really started. That's how I became a photographer. So it's, you know, it was I wasn't a hobby photographer who then followed my passion and became a professional photographer. I really kind of became a professional out of the gate. Um, but but I didn't know what I was doing. I had to kind of learn on the job.

Gary Pageau: 6:36

So fortunately, you had people who were willing to be patient with you, obviously.

Ash Fox: 6:42

People believed in me because the one thing I'll tell I'll say about myself is I have an eye. I have a natural ability for composition, for aesthetics. And so I just had to learn how to use the camera pretty much, but I got framing instantly, I got composition, um, lighting that came very natural.

Gary Pageau: 7:03

I know that that's probably from your art background, right?

Ash Fox: 7:05

I mean that yeah, yeah, exactly.

Gary Pageau: 7:09

So, what kind of photography did you get into? I mean, do you have you know, rock and roll or pop music or mall tour photography licked? You know, why didn't you stay with that?

Ash Fox: 7:23

So, what ended up happening was I had a crash and burn moment. So I was doing the rock and roll thing. I had so many dreams and aspirations. I got um one of the biggest, like I I have never talked about this on a podcast because it's it just doesn't seem relevant, but one of like the biggest exciting milestones in my life, which like nobody probably cares, is that Stone Temple Pilots Reunited. Do you know that band? Yeah, of course. Um, they were from the 90s. Okay, they had a reunion tour, and I got a press pass to be like to like photographed their reunion show in New York. And um, that was like one of those incredible moments. I was riding high, being like, okay, this is really coming together for me. Everything's coming. Sure. And then I crashed out because what ended up happening was the rock and roll party that we'd been doing, which brought um what it was was kind of it was this whole built community where we would do concerts and rock shows at different very like high-end hotels and places in New York, like bringing kind of a downtown vibe, uptown. And what ended up happening was the music scene really was there was this revival rock scene, but then it shifted and people just wanted hip hop, they wanted uh house music, they wanted top 40. And so the DJ was like, he had to pivot. And so that whole scene started dying. And we had to go to these clubs that were just absolutely awful, Gary. Like I was in these clubs with, you know, everybody is on drugs and drinking heavily. It's not about art, it's not about music. And I'm up until 4 a.m. I'm having to negotiate with like the manager who's trying to, who's basically harassing me, you know, like in a dark room, like where I would just want to get my check and go home. And he's like wanting to talk to me and flirt. And I got to my breaking point and I actually like I was very lucky. My dad was a real mentor for me. And I'm like, Dad, what am I gonna do? Like, you know, should I what I don't know what to do? He's like, you need to do bar mitzvahs, you need to do baptisms, you need to do weddings, like very fulsome photography. I'm like, dad, I'm not a sellout, I'm cool, you know, I'm a cool downtown, like like rock and roll chick, you know. This isn't cool. Um, but I really because I got to my breaking point, I was willing to make a change because I was getting depressed being up all night.

Gary Pageau: 9:29

And so the scene changed really wasn't the type of music that you were into. So that's it was so when you said you you flamed out, it really was really more like your market flamed out.

Ash Fox: 9:41

Exactly. The market flamed out because there was this beautiful revival scene and it flamed out. And I'm like, oh, well, now I can't really, it's not really carving that path anyway. Oh, the other thing, Gary, is you know, like spin and Rolling Stone, those magazines, they all had to shift the way they worked with photographers. Like in the past, they had people who were staff photographers, right? But with everything, all the changes and the budget cuts, there was no more staff photographers. It was just, you know, you get Getty images to submit an image or buy an image from Getty or something like that. It completely changed. That wasn't a viable path anymore.

Gary Pageau: 10:14

Were you on the city?

Ash Fox: 10:15

I was not on staff. I I was about to get on staff with one of those agencies like Getty, actually. Um, funny enough, yeah, this is such a great conversation, Karen, because I haven't thought about this stuff in years. But I actually was about to get on staff with one of the top agencies. A guy, funny enough, a bartender at one of these clubs said to me, Hey, I can get, I know someone who's like the who's at one of these staffing agencies, and I was so excited. I did the whole training with them. And then when it came down to it, they had just too many photographers that I was barely gonna get anything. So that's kind of when I leaned more into the family photography at that point. And what ended up happening was the family photography and doing like the baptism and doing the little wedding and all these things is how I ended up doing my first proposal. And that is what completely shifted and changed the whole game.

Gary Pageau: 11:05

So, how long were you doing like the family photography thing? I mean, when you say family photography, that's mostly like weddings then and things like that, right?

Ash Fox: 11:14

Or what I wasn't just doing family. Honestly, I was Jill of all trades photographer, you know, like who's literally doing anything she can do. So I didn't have a niche. I my niche had been the rock and roll stuff, and so I'm kind of coming out of that and I was just doing whatever I could do. I did a corporate photography, I did a lot of like pharmaceuticals, pharmaceutical corporate photography. I once wore a hazmat suit and had to like go in to a pharmaceutical facility, like shooting it in the hazmat suit was crazy, like shooting plasma. It was, I have a photo of it. It's honestly really funny if I can send it to you. But yeah, I had to literally like each room you had to take, put a new hazmat suit suit on and like suit up your camera just to shoot in there. But I was doing really, I was doing family photography and corporate at this simultaneously. The corporate, I would have, I would be still doing corporate to this day. But what ended up my whole brand changed and then corporate stopped hiring me, but corporate was a big thing for me. Um, but but what ended up happening was oh, so that was over the course of gosh, I think that this was around 2010 is when the whole thing started. And then I probably did, I don't know if I did my, I can't remember if I did my first proposal in 20 like 11 or 12, but it was around there. I ended up getting a job inquiry for a marriage proposal. And I, Gary, when I got this, I was like, what? I had to like look at it three times. I'm like, what does this guy want me to do? Because remember, we gotta roll back the clock. Instagram wasn't even a thing then. Like Instagram, right? I think had just come out, but people weren't really on the platform. It took some time before that blew up. I think that blew up around like 2014-15. You know, people just you didn't see all this, people with photographs of their proposal. It was like there was the wedding, and that was really it.

Gary Pageau: 12:56

You didn't see proposals, proposal you might see some honeymoon pics later on, but not from the professional photographer, of course.

Ash Fox: 13:03

No, or wedding pictures, but you never saw proposal pictures. So I got this guy wanting me to shoot his proposal. I'm like, what is this? So I'm like, all right, sure, I'll do it. And pretty much in those days back then, I wasn't Ash Fox who I am now, was like the proposal specialist. So I just showed up to do my job, which was just to take some pictures. I couldn't give him any advice. I didn't know, I couldn't advise this man in any any any which way like we do now. So I show up, the proposals on the lake in Central Park in New York City. Um, Central Park's this like giant, beautiful park, very iconic in New York's, in case people don't know it. Um, but there's this beautiful lake. You can take a little robo out. And so that's what he wanted to do. He was gonna take a little robo out with his fiancee to be, and he was gonna row it up to this famous bridge. It's called the Bow Bridge, and he wanted to propose like right near the Bow Bridge. So I found a little hut where I could hide out. I had my 70 to 200 lens that was faulty, by the way. Um, brought that with me.

Gary Pageau: 14:04

Didn't have your 50 mil on that one.

Ash Fox: 14:06

I had my 50, yeah, I had my 50 on the side, but no, I definitely needed my 70 to 200. And um, I'm just waiting in this little hut like a sniper, waiting for him to, you know, roll up. And the only thing he told me was, we're both blonde. I'm in a, she's in a green dress, I'm in a blue shirt, you'll see us. So I'm waiting for him, waiting for him. And he rolls up, and at the moment of the proposal, he turns the boat in the completely wrong direction. So we see the back of her head and don't get to see her reaction.

Gary Pageau: 14:33

Wow.

Ash Fox: 14:34

And so I'm like, oh my gosh, damn it. So I take the pictures, I feel so bad because I'm like, it's not my fault because I can't swim, but um still like swim to get the shot.

Gary Pageau: 14:43

But he wasn't prepped as to where you were gonna be either.

Ash Fox: 14:47

So he knew I was gonna be in the hut. He just he turned the boat in the wrong place um instead of like looking out for where I was. So it was totally fine because he he was like, Don't worry about it, Ash. Like, I love these pictures, it's perfect, you know. Because again, we didn't have references. This was just the early days. So he would, they were just so grateful. And um, and I did it. But here is the thing for me there was a big shift. So I watched this proposal happen. I got the pictures, and my whole perspective changed. And I was like, wow, this is such a special moment. This is such an intimate moment, this is such a romantic moment. This was not at all what I thought. Like when I when I said I was so jaded, I was like, why would you want a photo of this? I'm like, no, of course you want a photo of this because this is really the real, this is the real thing. Like the wedding, in a way, is a big performance.

Gary Pageau: 15:35

And if and if she said no, you can dump her out of the boat.

Ash Fox: 15:39

Oh my gosh. I hope not. I hope not. But no, it just it was like, hey, this is actually way more romantic because I had been doing weddings and I saw how weddings are, weddings are amazing, but weddings have a staged quality to them, they're very performative for the family.

Gary Pageau: 15:54

I know a lot of people get really burnt out doing weddings fairly quickly because it's it's a lot of work, a lot of stress, a lot of personality management. Like you said, there's a schedule, there's an itinerary, there's you know, things to shoot, yeah, family dynamics to navigate, there's all kinds of things in there.

Ash Fox: 16:12

And I'll tell you the crazy thing about proposals, Gary, we have all of that in a condensed amount of time. We have all of that, and it's very condensed. But um, but yeah, no, you can get the thing about weddings that was the hardest part for me was it really hurt my shoulders. It just like it killed me just because it's it's very heavy to be to be like this, you know, with both. I had two cameras and I'd be like this for like eight hours, and it just it was a lot. Um, but anyway, what ended up happening was this is the crazy part of the story. So one, it was either one or two weeks later, I get an email from a woman. My son is proposing on the lake in Central Park. I need a photophotographer to do it. And I'm like, wait, I literally just did a proposal last week on the lake in Central Park. I can help your son. I know exactly what to do. I exactly know how the timing for it, where he should go, where I'm gonna be, how to turn the boat in the right direction, all that. So I end up helping her and her son. We do the proposal. It's you know, chef's kiss, perfect. She grabs me. She's like, you don't understand what this meant to our family. She's like, this was everything to us. And this is your calling in life. You're meant to do proposals. You're meant to help people with their proposals. And I'm thinking, like, is she crazy? Like, this is just one-off proposal. This is the second proposal I've ever had. Like, why is this my calling? But it's wild. I kind of think of her as like my proposal fairy godmother because she sort of like took her magic wand. This is what you're meant to do. Um, and that, crazy enough, it's what happened. What ended up, I didn't try to follow this path at all, Gary. Um, I wasn't like, I never at any point said my niche is going to be proposals. What happened was the niche grabbed me. And I just kept on getting more and more um people saying, you know what you're doing, you're the expert. Um, and I became that. And so um, yeah, it's really interesting.

Gary Pageau: 18:01

So it's another case of a niche finding you rather than you finding it. Because that happened with the with the music photography, obviously, and that sort of thing. Exactly. Not happened with the proposals. So when when you're talking about a proposal, like I'm a proposal coordinator, photographer, whatever, what does that actually mean? I mean, can you just kind of put that definition in there of like what constitutes that in terms of like what your job entails? Is it even like setting it up the venue or what costume? I don't know about costuming, but I'm happy to tell you, Gary. Yeah, I mean, obviously, it's more than just showing up and taking a picture with your faulty lens.

Ash Fox: 18:43

Which eventually got fixed. We eventually upgraded to a nice, you know, Nikon 70 to 200 to lay out the um vernacular here of the jargon. Proposal photographer, there still are those, and a proposal photographer is what I was. I was one of the first proposal photographers of that time, whatever. I ended up getting known as that. The Daily News wrote a story on me, like Ashbox is the proposal photographer of New York, and that kind of like blew things up for me.

Gary Pageau: 19:08

Oh, yeah.

Ash Fox: 19:08

Um, but but what ended up happening for me was so so proposal photographer is still something that exists where people show up, they shoot the proposal, and that's what they do. But what ended up happening for me was I really felt like it's not enough to just shoot these pictures because if you just stand by and you're waiting for the client to tell you where to where to go, what to do, it's so messy, it's so stressful. And a lot of these guys, it's not that they don't know what they're doing, but a lot of times people have a vision, but they don't know actually how that translates in real life in many different ways, from like even the conception of what a picture would be like. Like I've had multiple men say, I want to propose on the Brooklyn Bridge. They had a fantasy at the Brooklyn Bridge. And I was like, at a certain point, I said, No more Brooklyn Bridge proposals, because we got to do a pictures with a view of the Brooklyn Bridge, but not on the bridge, because the bridge is a bridge that people walk on and there's bicycles, and it's you know, it's it's not really all that great once you're on it, right?

Gary Pageau: 20:03

I mean, you see what I'm saying.

Ash Fox: 20:07

Exactly. It just got to a point where there was a lot of things people wanted, and I was happy to accommodate, and I still am if people have a real reason for it. Like if a guy told me, which we did, we had a client who his grandfather proposed on the Brooklyn Bridge, was like, no, it's gotta be on the Brooklyn Bridge because we're keeping that family tradition. Um, but when a person who just has never been to New York before has a vision of something and they don't know what that reality is really like, they really need someone to hold their hand through the process. And that's just one aspect of it. There's a lot of things. So what I realized was it's not just enough to just do the photography. I'm really like a consultant, I'm an advisor, I'm a coach to these guys. Um, it's not just guys, but it's mostly guys. And so when they when they got in touch, we would do a planning session, which is really where we go over their idea, you know, get my feedback because I've done at this point 3,000 proposals and um really just tell them what I think would work for them and be the best for them and answer all their questions. Like there are family dynamics that people are navigating. There's a lot of um decoys that we have to figure out to really surprise their, to surprise their partner because they might have a partner who plans everything. And so it's hard on them to kind of how am I gonna work this out when she plans everything. So that's one piece of it. Well, that's a big that's there's many pieces of the planning session. So the planning session became a big part of it. So it was more than just obviously the photography. So that was there. And then what happened is as I went along, I realized a lot of my clients need more help than just the photography. Like they really need private venues to propose. And I started working with private venues, and I got my, I've got now 12 rooftops that we have that we have like very private, beautiful spaces for clients. Then we started doing decorations because it was like, hey, people want decorations now for some of these things. Also, you know, proposal the proposal game changed in a lot of ways because of Instagram. Back to Instagram, it's like people started seeing pictures of things that were more and more elaborate. And so people started feeling like, hey, you know, their eye, it's like it's I hate to say it's kind of like porn, you know, like you see something and then all of a sudden you're desensitized. And so, um, kind of like with Instagram, you you see a certain kind of proposal. Now you're desensitized, it doesn't look elaborate enough. So you want something even more wild, right?

Gary Pageau: 22:20

Because everyone's wants like a unique thing, but it's gotta be in tune with what people are currently doing, right? The current trend, right? Whatever, whatever that is, right?

Ash Fox: 22:32

Because people want to fit, you know, people obviously it's not everybody's like this, but there are people who are in friend groups and things where they don't want to be like the one guy in the group that didn't do something nice, or you know, the girls talk now, and you know, it's just it's just um, and it's not just girls. We have all kinds of people getting engaged all the time, it's mostly straight men uh proposing to women, but we have a lot of women proposing a women, and we have some men proposing a men, and we have um transgender and you know, queer people too. So that's really what ended up happening with me. It was it really just.

Gary Pageau: 23:00

Oh, so how do you I guess my question was interesting was like you had to figure out then, okay, I need to charge for the proposal piece. That needs to be like a revenue generator, right? As opposed to an add-on service for just the picture side of it.

Ash Fox: 23:16

So how when Oh, the planning you're saying, are you saying planning? Are you meaning planning?

Gary Pageau: 23:20

I mean, you I mean, you had to figure out like that's gonna be a product too, as opposed to I'm just gonna help people out, right?

Ash Fox: 23:27

Well, Gary, at first I did not. Honestly, to this day, I don't feel I really am charging for that. That's the thing that honestly separates working with me from other people out there, where some guy might be like, and there are people like this, like, like, oh, let me just find the cheapest photographer possible. Or someone might say, Let me just find a really good photographer. Well, honestly, like me and my team were both, because you don't just get a great photographer, because that's a big tenant of what we do. You're gonna get the planning session with me too. So that's added value that most that are not they're not gonna have that. So I pretty much just my own ethos. It wasn't really about charging for that. It was more like, I need to give this to the men because I don't think their proposals are gonna come out well if they don't have a session with me. That was pretty much what it was.

Gary Pageau: 24:09

So I I've got to ask before I before I forget. Yeah, have you ever had one where the proposal went just completely sideways where it just fell flat? It was uncomfortable. Let's put it that way.

Ash Fox: 24:22

So we have never ever ever had anyone say no to a proposal. And I can't, yeah, and I can't take full credit for that, but I will say that my clients, number one, and I always say this don't propose to someone if you don't know the answer is gonna be yes. Like, do not do a whole big proposal. You know, you should know that you're on the same page that you want marriage. The next thing I'm gonna say is the reason why people ask me that so often, has anyone said no, is because of the viral no videos that are on YouTube and TikTok. And I'll just tell you, they are fake. Like, I'm I'm 99.9% sure that these are not real. That what it is is that it's a trend. Cause you can get um, you know, like even on like you can make money from a viral video online if you get enough of them. So people just make them. They're like, let's just fake a proposal and you'll say no, and we'll get all like millions of views. Cause they do.

Gary Pageau: 25:13

Right.

Ash Fox: 25:13

So they're just not real. Um, because people don't really do that. They just don't, you know, people don't get on their knee and propose and buy a ring and do a whole thing if they're if they don't, you know, intend to marry the person. But no, in terms of like having proposals go sideways, so we've done 3,000 proposals. Everyone is happy, everyone gets ends up getting engaged. Not everyone makes this to the altar.

Gary Pageau: 25:37

Ah, okay.

Ash Fox: 25:38

Yes. And the reason for that is I think sometimes we've had a few, I can think of a couple of examples of situations where, you know, just from being around it so much, I can sense sometimes I can sense certain things just in the people. You know, I work closely with my clients. I love my clients. And sometimes there's times where you can feel that like maybe someone is a little bit more high octane about getting this going than the other person. Maybe the other person isn't so sure. You know, you watch that show, Love is Blind.

Gary Pageau: 26:08

I don't know if you've ever seen it, but they gotta make it family members who very much like that show, yes.

Ash Fox: 26:13

Yeah, and you like you wait till that day they get to the altar, and then it's like, are they gonna say yes? Now they've been engaged for a while, and sometimes there's one person who's way more into it than the other person.

Gary Pageau: 26:22

Right.

Ash Fox: 26:22

And so I can think of a few clients who I, you know, I really love. One of them, he did an incredible proposal. He was at the biggest heart, and yeah, they didn't make it to the altar, you know, it didn't, it didn't end up working out. Um, and I can think of another man who I won't name him, but I remember him telling me she was a gorgeous girl, and he told me he's like, Ash, the prenup says she can't cut her hair. Well, they didn't make it to the altar, okay?

Gary Pageau: 26:47

So that's interesting.

Ash Fox: 26:51

I would I've heard a lot of funny things in my in my days.

Gary Pageau: 26:54

I mean, I I mean, does that ever come up to like prenup stuff? Because you know, I I I'm kind of like when I got married, there was no prenup thing happening. So I'm just curious, like, you know, do you ever hear about weird stuff like that? I mean, I mean, that to me is just a weird condition. I mean, that's almost like oh, it's totally bizarre.

Ash Fox: 27:16

Absolutely, and that's probably why it didn't work out with them, and that's what I mean. Like, there's they she said, yes, they had a beautiful proposal, they're a gorgeous couple, but they didn't make it to the altar because you know, that's a kind of a sign something's a little off, right? So the times that I've noticed things, and like I said, there was a guy who did an incredible proposal, amazing guy. She seemed really happy, but they didn't make it to the altar either. And there was something just their energy was a little different where it seemed a little bit like I hate to say it, I sense he was trying to win her over a little with his proposal. And you should never do that, you know. But I have, but that just that said, I just want to caveat that is we have so many clients who go above and beyond in all different ways, whether it's doing something a little over the top, or not even just that. It's just the sentiment that they put into it, the effort, the thought, the care. And it's equally matched by the person they're with. And so they end up, they do make it to the altar, they make it, they've been together for years and years and years. So it doesn't mean just because you go out of your way that it's not gonna work out. It's just like don't do that if you're sensing the person is not ready for marriage, really.

Gary Pageau: 28:16

When you're talking about your package of services, right, does that still include like weddings and other things, or are you just focused on proposals only?

Ash Fox: 28:26

We are proposals only. What we do is proposals. That's our specialty. Now, if we have a client and we've had clients like this who are like, oh my gosh, this was so incredible. We love you so much. We're doing an elopement or we're doing a small wedding in the tri-state area in New York area. We want to use you guys totally. We do them. We do them for people. Um, but it's not our main um, it's not like the way that we front face. We we'll do it if people want it, because we're happy to do it. And sometimes people also, there's a comfort because it's it's a very vulnerable thing, the whole proposal. And you get close and you get, you know, I've been close with my clients where they're like, yeah, we want, we want to carry on. The other thing to mention, Gary, is I have a team now. So I have three amazing photographers who have been trained in my proposal method approach, my ash box proposals. Yeah, and they're so incredible.

Gary Pageau: 29:15

And like and they have access to your places that you've really have relationships with and things like that.

Ash Fox: 29:20

Oh, well, yes, we have a whole beautiful system for everything. So the way that our our whole process works is like a client comes in the door, we do a planning session, and then all they now need to do is get there. They just need to show up for the proposal and get out on their knee. They don't have to do anything because we have it all.

Gary Pageau: 29:38

How much late time do you usually have to put together something like this?

Ash Fox: 29:42

Well, we have a we have a range, it depends on the guy. So one month is awesome. One month you can get everything done, pretty much. But we have sometimes people who, you know, they want to book things way further in advance, which is totally fine. There's a little challenge with that, is just that proposals are a different. Animal than weddings. And so with weddings, people always think of you got to book it way in advance because you want to make sure all the vendors, everything's free. Proposals, me and my team, you can book us a year ahead. You can book us, you know, a year and a half ahead. But with some of the other things that we offer, like some of our venues, we can't confirm that until way closer to the date. It's a smaller event. So that's sometimes just like the one reason to, you know, book a little closer. But yeah, six months is even good. Um, a year is a little bit much, but we can't do that.

Gary Pageau: 30:28

No, that's kind of excessive, I think.

Ash Fox: 30:30

But some people want New Year's, some people want Christmas, they want like really hot button dates or Valentine's Day. So they book those ahead of time. But yeah, most people book like I'd say average is like three months, one month to three months, but we we even do ones two weeks ahead, too. We've even had week of ones if we can do it. We can't always do it, but sometimes we can. That's cool.

Gary Pageau: 30:49

So have you noticed any trends? Like you've been doing this for a while, about 10 years, right? Specifically. More. So, like from pre-COVID versus post-COVID, has there been any kind of changes there in terms of what people expectations are? Because you've had a few bunch of things happen, right? You've had obviously COVID has impacted things, and then you like you said, you've had the kind of the social media thing. Like, have you had to do some TikTok stuff to kind of like as part of your portfolio, do some video clippage and things like that? I mean, because the world's changed in those 10 years.

Ash Fox: 31:21

You're so right, Gary. Um, because I haven't not even really considered that to that level. But the main things that have changed are you're right, video is huge. We for years we did video, but I didn't really promote it because I kind of felt like, ah, who needs, you know, maybe they don't need it. The thing with me too is this is probably not where I'm the best businesswoman, but I don't sell things just to sell them. It's kind of like what you're saying to me before, you're like, oh, do you charge extra for the, you know, the call and everything? I'm like, no, I just include it. I don't sell things just to sell them. I sell things if I feel my client it's something that they need and would want. Um, because it's not like, oh, you have to because I just feel like it's a very personal thing, it's a very sentimental thing. And so you can't just say one size fits all, or like you should grab all these bells and whistles that you don't necessarily need. Not everyone needs video, but there's people who do need video. There's people who love social media, there's people who do want to share this, there's people who want to show it at their engagement party, they want to do it. So for them, it's great. Or there are also couples who want video because they want it to be just something that they can look at and cherish. So we do a ton of video, like almost all of our proposals now. A lot of our clients are having video too. Every proposal comes with photography, it comes with planning with me, one-to-one with me. But then we have all the extras you can add, which is fine. You can add private venues, you can add decorations, you can add video, you know, and so on. Other changes that I've seen. You know what? It's been mostly consistent, I will say, in terms of what people are desiring. It hasn't changed that much, but like I said, things have gotten bigger visually.

Gary Pageau: 32:58

Okay.

Ash Fox: 32:58

So when I first started, we were doing a lot of parks, very understated, maybe some rose petals. Now we still do that plenty. We still do simple park proposals with some rose petals, maybe a few candles. But we also have proposals that are pretty over the top with like very big decor and things like this. And people for the right person, it's right. For the wrong person, it's wrong. You know, some people love that aesthetic, and some people are more understated. So we serve, we serve our client. If they want something over the top, we can make it happen. If they want something more subtle, can totally do it. It just depends on who they are.

Gary Pageau: 33:33

Well, this has been a crazy conversation. I mean, I didn't even know this existed. This is so cool. Are there any other photographers out there who do what you do?

Ash Fox: 33:41

I am kind of an OG in the space. I'm honestly an OG. I've been around a long time. You can look up, you can Google my name and too, and just like watch old videos of me on YouTube. I had a video go viral in 2017. It was like 12 million people watched it. And that video made people aware of what this was because people didn't really know about it. And so a lot of people, the comments on that video were like, oh, I didn't know this exists. And the second comment underneath that would be a girl being like, I want to do what she does. So, like a lot of people started doing this. There are people out there, but probably, I mean, I'm OG in this space. If you want to be to work with someone who's been doing this for, you know, a zillion years in terms of you know, the modern times that we're in, I've seen it all. So I'm happy to help you.

Gary Pageau: 34:26

Well, but I think it validates the business, right? I mean, it's always one of those things where people copy success, right? They think when they see things they want to do. And of course, you know, the wedding photography business is just replete with those people who, you know, I went to a wedding and I can do what she can do. It's just almost to an extreme in in the wrong direction. Back that, you know, you get people. I think there's that's one of the purchases that uh when it comes to a wedding, a lot of people regret because of photographers overselling their skills or for various other reasons they're not delivering the product they promised.

Ash Fox: 35:01

I didn't know that. I didn't even know that.

Gary Pageau: 35:03

Oh, yeah, there's yeah, that's an off offline conversation. But wow. This is this has been wonderful talking to you. Um, where can people go for more information to learn about the Ashbox proposals? This is just crazy.

Ash Fox: 35:18

Thank you, Gary. Well, I'm just gonna say, um, just share something real quick. I offer planning sessions and you can do them one-off with me. If someone is proposing, needs advice, ideas, guidance, anything like that, you can book a session with me. If you are proposing in the New York area, we have full service proposal planning, photography, planning, everything, coordination, happy to help you there. But if you are in someplace else in the United States or in the world, I'm also happy to help you. And you know, for certain clients we do fly out to if they can do it. So to find me, Ashfox proposals on Instagram, TikTok, and that's just it, AshFox Proposals. And then if you want to check out my website, it's ashfoxproposals.com or ashfoxphotography.com. It's the same URL. So yeah.

Gary Pageau: 36:10

Well, thanks, Ashley. Great to meet you. Like I said, I learned a bunch. This has been fun, and uh never thought I'd hear Stone Temple Pilots in a one of my podcasts. So that's that's a first. So I appreciate the call back to the classics and uh hope to talk to you again later.

Ash Fox: 36:26

That's great. Thank you for having me, Gary

Erin Manning: 36:29

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