How SnapShield protects school photos, with Carl Bott

One screenshot can feel harmless, until you realize it might be happening at scale and quietly rewriting your sales numbers. Gary Pageau of The Dead Pixels Society sits down with Carl Bott, founder of SnapShield, to get practical about a problem volume photographers keep bumping into: parents screenshotting online proofs, using AI watermark removal tools, and sharing “good enough” images instead of buying digital downloads or prints. Bott shares what he’s seeing across school photography and youth sports photography, including why the old solution of bigger watermarks can backfire by hurting the buyer experience and lowering conversion.

Bott shares how he developed SnapShield and how it works. He shows how screenshot attempts can be reported with timestamps and access codes, and how that data changes decision-making for a volume business built on revenue per head. When you can spot patterns, you can separate normal price sensitivity from real theft behavior, decide which schools or leagues are worth revisiting, and understand why some “non-buyers” suddenly start purchasing when screenshots stop working. They also talk about the gray areas, like families who screenshot to show relatives, and how a clear, customizable consent box can educate customers on copyright without turning your gallery into a hostile checkout.

Mobile is a huge part of the story. Most browsing and many purchases happen on phones, and that convenience comes with new limits on what web galleries can control. Bott breaks down the tradeoffs between web-based protection and downloadable apps, why parents resist app installs for once-a-year ordering, and why platform integrations (including GotPhoto and more in the works) are key to making protection feel seamless.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Gary Pageau 0:00

Hello again and welcome to The Dead Pixels Society podcast. I'm your host, Gary Pageau. And today we're joined by Carl Bott, who's the founder of SnapShield. And he's coming to us from Nashville, Tennessee, even though he's originally a Michigander like me. Hey Carl, how are you today?

Carl Bott 0:15

Good, Gary. I appreciate uh you letting me jump on here and kind of chat about this. It's I'm excited.

From Homeless To Volume Growth

Gary Pageau 0:21

So let's talk a little bit about your journey in the volume business before we get to Snapchat, because that's really where it all started was your history in, or I should say, your legacy in the photo business.

Carl Bott 0:33

So I moved to Nashville in 2015. I was actually homeless for about eight weeks and I was doing door-to-door sales. So I got really good at sales, but I actually worked for a photography company in Michigan and volume company. And so stumbled into the photography once I moved to Nashville. And yeah, just kind of took off and ran through that open door. We are contracted currently for upwards of a hundred thousand kids. So we're one of the larger companies around town. Yeah. And that's that's kind of how I got back into the industry after after moving away.

Gary Pageau 1:08

So so what was that like starting one up from scratch? Because I mean, obviously down in Tennessee, that's sort of the heart and soul of the school photography business, right? How did you bring what did you bring to the there that that was kind of missing to the marketplace? Because you know, 100,000 heads is not a small business.

Carl Bott 1:29

Yeah. So wildly enough, so I was working for New York Life. We were doing a child ID program, and one of the guys was doing the fingerprints, the girl was doing all the printing, and they knew if I had photography experience. So I was actually going through and taking photos. One of the coaches, there's 4,000 kids at this event, and it was a youth tackle football jamboree. So it was kind of like their big scrimmage where all the teams would come together. Well, one of the coaches came up and was like, Hey, you got a nice camera. Could you do our team photos this year? And I said, You know, I mean, I can, but why isn't your photographer doing that? She says, I've been in this program for seven or eight years. We've never had professional photography before. I was like, wait, what? So I started asking the other coaches. I'm like, you know, of course I go into sales mode. And I was like, doing your photos this year. And they're like, Photos, that's a great idea. We should do photos. And I'm like, Are you kidding me right now? Totally open market.

Gary Pageau 2:26

Right.

Carl Bott 2:27

It was insane. So yeah, I just I started picking up the phone and calling. And next thing you know, I mean, I booked seven leagues at that two-hour event. And so I was booked right the entire fall season. And I didn't even own a camera at the time. That's kind of how I got started in you know this crazy market.

Spotting A Wide Open Market

Gary Pageau 2:50

Okay. So you've grown and you've kind of had this kind of an entrepreneurial sort of bent, and you've evolved into this product or company called SnapShield. Can you talk a little bit about what Snapchild is and how you came up with it?

Carl Bott 3:05

Yeah. So Snap Shield actually started as a little passion project. And essentially what it is, it's protection from screenshots. A lot of photographers nowadays are running into the Facebook groups, the watermark removal groups, and with AI as prevalent as it is, parents are taking screenshots of the photos, popping it into these softwares, and then removing the watermarks. A couple of years ago, when I first started what wasn't even Snapchat at the time, it was just I'm trying to stop people from doing this because we're we're going through this cycle of new watermark, and then we're actually seeing sales decrease because the watermarks were so obnoxious that it wasn't working.

Gary Pageau 3:48

So the balance there, right? Between watermark and obnoxious, where they the parent can't even see the kid's expression.

Carl Bott 3:57

Yeah, and so it the buyer experience was really suffering. And so I knew if we could stop the screenshot from happening from the get-go, the watermark wouldn't matter. And so that was kind of the approach that I took. And so I built this out and I had little pop-ups that came up, which I created this little bit of code using Chat GPT, and I just popped it in and said, Hey, you know, this is illegal. Well, I was at a conference and I was doing a demo one time, and somebody saw that pop-up and they were like, Wait, what is that? I said, Ah, it's just this little thing I'm working on. They're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And so that's kind of how it came to public market was I I just had a lot of interest in it, and it's it's making a difference. Anytime somebody attempts a screenshot, it's reported back to the photographer with their access code, timestamp,

SnapShield Origin And Core Idea

Carl Bott 4:47

date stamp. So I've really kind of put a lot of effort into this to essentially put the power back into the photographer's hands versus waiting for them to wait for something to happen on Facebook. And then at that point, it's too late.

Gary Pageau 5:02

Well, one of the things that I've that I know about the Snapchat product is that it is more than just a utility to block screenshots, right? I mean, that's it's it's kind of beyond that because I've talked to like Bob Kenward and people who are big fans of it, and they say things like, you know, it really shows me the customer history where I'm now getting orders from customers who never ordered before because they were probably screenshotting them. Yeah. And now I can see their buying history, and now they're actually having to buy because they can't screenshot anymore.

Carl Bott 5:36

When I first started working on this, I was working on the reporting, we were at about a two to three per screenshot attempt rate. And then the following year, we were right between that five to seven percent. And this past spring, we were between 12 and 15 percent theft attempt rate. So one out of every nine parents is attempting a screenshot. Now, again, to be fair, not all of those are malicious, right? It could be mom trying to take a screenshot to show grandma or something like that. So I'm not saying that everybody's trying to steal from you, but yeah, it is a growing problem. And that's where I'm fearful. But yes, it's to that point. It's showing those trends so the photographer knows, oh, okay, yes, I want to go back to that school, or maybe that's a school I don't want to work with anymore, and that's where I'm I'm bleeding from, you know. Yeah, I tell you.

Gary Pageau 6:29

Yeah, I mean, buying photography is a very data-driven business, right? And I mean, most people don't who are outside the industry don't understand that, is that it's very much revenue per head sort of you know, idea and all that kind of stuff. So this really is just another tool you can use to kind of determine, like you said, is this a school I even want to do business with?

Carl Bott 6:50

Yeah, you know, I have people that don't even put the protections on. So it the the buying experience looks exactly like it would without protections, and they're just watching the reporting simply to find out like what's happening in their business, right? And so when we start seeing a decline, we instantly think it's either photo quality or prices are too high or things like that. We haven't even been thinking about theft, you know, because we don't have that physical product that's standing there on a shelf. Well, now we can, and so now we can start determining which organizations are actually stealing from us and make educated decisions on those orgs.

Theft Reporting And Business Insights

Gary Pageau 7:31

So let's talk a little bit about you know the legality side of it, right? You know, you're not offering legal advice or anything like that, you're just providing a tool. But what could the industry do to educate consumers more? Because, like you said, I think there's a few, quite a few consumers, quite a few, who don't understand copyright, especially as it relates to photography, right? Because it's on the internet, it's got to be free. What are your thoughts on that? Is it because I think part of it is an educational issue. Certainly there's a commerce issue, and maybe it is pricing in. Because I mean, I I see all those Facebook groups, but myself, and it's like they want $40 of for my first graders' picture. That seems a lot to me, but I think there's a lot there.

Carl Bott 8:13

Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of this is education, which is why part of SnapShield, I wanted to have those consent boxes. So the first thing I tell people is have that opening page consent. So when a parent first logs into their online shop, a consent box pops up and it's fully customizable. So the photographer can kind of put their flavor on it. You know, they can be as passive as they want or they can be as aggressive as they want. I've got photographers that will just flat out say, hey, look, don't do this. We appreciate you know you supporting small business. I've got other photographers that are, we're gonna take you to jail. Not at all. But that's that that's the beauty of it. It's kind of it fits your voice, and that was super important to me. But they actually have to check that box in order to continue to see their photos. Right. So to me, that gets rid of any claim of ignorance that the parents didn't know, right? And because that's reported back to the photographer with that consent box, when the parent comes back and says, Well, I didn't know, why am I being fined for this? Right, uh, you've kind of got that proof now to say, Well, you did consent to this, you know. Again, whether they read it or not. But yeah, I think from a legality standpoint, I think it is a lot of education. And I think just having that has has slowed down the attempts in itself.

Gary Pageau 9:59

So one of the challenges that I see is sort of, you know, since everything went mobile, it's easier to do a screenshot. You know, platforms like Got Photo and Keptura and Photo Day, you know, they have all pushed for the mobile experience, but that

Consent Boxes And Copyright Education

Gary Pageau 10:12

also does open up the opportunity for the very easy screenshot.

Carl Bott 10:17

Mobile is is about of the purchases that we're finding online, just talking with a lot of the platforms, and about 72% of the screenshot attempts are coming from mobile, right? So that's definitely an issue, and there's a lot of restrictions on mobile of what we can report, what we can actually see, you know, what we can control. So the the mobile companies want you to download an app. And so essentially it's kind of like this might be a hot topic, but it's kind of like showing your receipt at Walmart versus showing your receipt at Costco, right? So at Walmart, I'm not a member of Walmart, I don't have to legally show you a receipt. I can walk right past that person, and there's nothing legally they can do versus Costco. I have a membership with Costco. I signed an agreement stating that I can or I will show my receipt before I leave that store. So there's a huge difference there. When you download that app, you give up those rights for mechanical presses, for volume button, power button, for all of that. So now I can fully control that with a downloadable app. But as you know, no parent wants to download an app once or twice a year to buy school photos, right? So that's the struggle we're in. If we could pigeonhole parents to do that, then we would have full control, but we can't. And companies have tried it and they've completely tanked because parents don't want to take that route. So yeah, it's a struggle.

Gary Pageau 11:55

So let's talk a little bit about the policing of the Facebook groups, because I've seen a few of those, right? I'm sure there's more of them than what I see. But what is the behavior that happens there that is objectionable to photographers? For those who don't know, for the listeners who don't understand what's happening, what is actually happening?

Carl Bott 12:13

Yeah, so there

Mobile Screenshots And App Tradeoffs

Carl Bott 12:14

are actual watermark removal groups on Facebook and on all social media. And essentially what they're doing is they're saying, your screenshot here, and we'll just take the watermark off, whether it's an AI program, whether it is, you know, somebody just popping it in the Photoshop and doing it that way versus what we're gonna charge at $50 a digital download. So, you know, for these parents, it makes sense. And I kind of attribute it to the music industry, you like when we would download music on Napster and yeah, lime wire or whatever. Yeah, I think it goes back to ignorance. I think a lot of these parents don't know, and then you have the thieves that are just they're gonna thieve. So but that's a lot of what we're seeing in the watermark removal groups, and the problem with Facebook Facebook actually has a clause because I've done a lot of digging into this. Facebook has a clause that they can't be responsible essentially for the behaviors of the people on Facebook, right?

Gary Pageau 13:11

So what happens because they're not technically a publisher, and so I think that's the section 201 stuff, I think is what that is.

Carl Bott 13:21

We can submit the the copyright removal, blah, blah, blah. And now Facebook is responsible if they don't flag the group. But the

Watermark Removal Groups On Facebook

Carl Bott 13:30

problem is it's so easy to start a new group, they're shutting down the the Facebook group because now Facebook, once Facebook's made aware, they can be sued. So we could actually do a class action against Facebook, but we've got to go through the ropes, and it takes it could take six months just for them to remove it, and then in two minutes they've started a new group, and then you have to go through the whole process. Right, it's moving. So that's why my whole goal was just to stop the screenshot from happening to begin with, right? Make it more difficult for that end result.

Gary Pageau 14:00

So the other piece is some of the AI tools now are resistant to even letting you do things like remove watermarks.

Carl Bott 14:08

It's all on how you prompt it. Like Chat GPT has gotten really good. If you ask it to remove a watermark, it says that's against my terms and conditions. But some of these AI platforms are being built by these guys that are removing it, and so you know, but they're not buying their terms and conditions that it's illegal. So, yeah, I mean, it's I I had somebody tell me one time it's kind of like a lock, right? Locks are meant for honest. If somebody wants to break a lock, they're gonna break a lock. And you know, that's just the unfortunate part of it.

Gary Pageau 14:38

Yeah, I mean, people have been even back in the paper in the days of paper proofs, right? People were stealing pictures. I mean, it's it's you're it's gonna happen. It's just a question of like you said, can you make it more difficult for the honest people to have a lapse in ethics to prevent those folks or the convenience folks or the people like that versus the people who are just hey, I have I don't respect laws and you know, I don't like what photographers are charging, and it's my kids, so it's I I I you know I can I should have access to this picture regardless. So let's talk a little bit about if I want to experience Snapchat as a customer, how can I do that? Right? What's the do I have to be do I can I do it myself? Do I have to be part of one of these other platforms? Who are the platforms you're integrated with? And take me through that.

Carl Bott 15:34

So currently we have a full integration lookout photo.

AI Limits And Lock Analogy

Carl Bott 15:38

I do have, I wouldn't say it's an integration, but if we are live on a platform that has an open HTML, I can I can go ahead and get

Integrations With GotPhoto And Others

Carl Bott 15:47

it on there. That's kind of the biggest force is we've got to have access to that HTML. So if there's a platform that a customer's on, and I can get in with their tech team and and work with them on that, we can integrate it. So it could be on every platform by default if if right if we from some of the platforms. Yeah I do have four deals going right now very, very major platforms, and hopefully by the time that this this drops, we'll be able to answer this question a little better. So a lot more people are gonna have access to this come fall season.

Gary Pageau 16:26

Sure. So let's talk a little bit about sort of the got photo relationships. And say we're like, they have really been forward in this regard, really pushing stuff. And recently they had camp. What was that like? Because you were there doing your thing, right?

Carl Bott 16:40

Yeah, so I I do a lot of speaking. I'm usually there as the sales guy and automation guy. And so going to summer camp this year was a completely different experience being because I got a lot of really, really good feedback.

Feedback From GotPhoto Summer Camp

Carl Bott 16:58

And with Snapshield being as early as it is, I'm able to take a lot of that feedback and implement it, you know. And so for instance, one of the points we had was it was kind of an all or nothing. So once you implement the code, it's found every single job. And that was the feedback that I got from summer camp. So I came within a week, I was able to get that up to where we can individualize Snapchat for each individual that way. If you've got a private school that you don't want the protections on, you can take it off. So it was pretty to be honest, and I I love Summer Camp, but it was a lot this year. Again, just coming from an point of view, you know, as I guess more of a vendor than actual participantslash speaker.

Gary Pageau 17:44

So what is your model? How does Carl make money on this? Like, is it an installation fee? Is it a monthly subscription? Is it a you know, you get 10 cents per image blocked?

Carl Bott 17:57

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it's a subscription, okay? It truly is just kind of what makes the one thing I did build in because of our industry, and I think the best part is I know the industry, I'm in the industry. Right. So I know in June and July, most people aren't using Snap Shield, right? Right. So I have a pause plan,

Pricing Model And Pause Plan

Carl Bott 18:16

and so you can actually drop down to that pause plan helps me pay for all this storage, you know, but at the same time, you're not pitching out $49 a month to have the full protections. So start at $19 a month and kind of go up from there. I've got that all on the website. Pretty simple.

Gary Pageau 18:36

So I want to talk a little bit about you being from the industry because I think that's important. You know, the volume photography industry is very niche, very, very specific. And there's a lot of like homebrew culture that I see within the industry, right? Where you have, you know, a lot of the the companies that are in the business now are really coming from school photography companies. Why do you think that is?

Carl Bott 19:03

I think a lot of it is some of the industry

Why Industry-Built Tools Win

Carl Bott 19:08

of advances, especially like now with AI. It's no different than when we were in film that we went to digital, right? I mean, there's just this shift in the industry. So it's kind of the same now. So I think it's taking more people that are close to home as an in the industry versus these tech guys that are outside of the industry that just don't get the exact need schedule. Like CNU, real good friend of mine, you know, Michael and TJ Rack, real good friends of mine, you know, they know the industry. So they're creating that program with that in mind. And I was when I was talking with Cinu, he said it's basically Monday.com for volume photographers, you know. Right.

Gary Pageau 19:51

There's really no way you could take Monday.com and make it apply to to volume photography because it's just so specific.

Carl Bott 19:58

Yep, exactly. And I think that's where a lot of the strength of some of these newer platforms are coming out. I mean, same thing with Snapchat. Again, I'm catering this to volume. Could a wedding photographer use it? Absolutely, but that's not my that's not my purpose yet.

Gary Pageau 20:18

The volume space, while it is fairly large as an industry, very niche, but large, you know, you your technology could be applied to other portrait categories.

Carl Bott 20:28

Yeah, 100%. In fact, I did a podcast for PPA, and they even said something about museum galleries, you know, where people are stealing this stuff online and then making their own prints instead of purchasing from the gallery itself. Which is crazy. Yeah, and but again, I think this is where Snapchill could really help this entire industry outside of just school and sports photography. But, you know, again, this is what I know, this is what I've lived in brilliant for the last 16 years, you know. So I'm not a newbie in in this industry, and it's also just an industry that's given a lot to me. And I see a shelf life right now if we don't stop this, and it's scary, you know, and so I figured, well, if if I can make a difference and give back to an industry that's given so much to me, then that's what I'm gonna do.

Gary Pageau 21:21

Because I think that's one of the things when I talk to people in the volume space, there is sort of this underlying anxiety about the future of the industry, right? Because you know, your mom does have a pretty decent phone on her camera, she can take that picture. So, and how much can we lean into as an industry to you know the memories, the tradition, and all that kind of stuff? Because there's all kinds of cultural things happening that are eroding traditions, right? So, obviously, maximizing your current business

Selling Service Over Product

Gary Pageau 21:53

is a high priority right now.

Carl Bott 21:56

Every Sam's Club in Costco has a camera deal, you know, it is making it easier for the soccer mom to start a air quotes volume company. Yeah.

Gary Pageau 22:07

Well, I mean, there's a reason why, you know, 20% of the attendees at SPAC are new every year because it's a lot of those folks, which again, God bless them for coming in the industry, right? That's there's I'd rather have people entering an industry than leaving one. I

Carl Bott 22:22

Think it shows the strength of the industry for sure. You know, and and there's gives and takes to that. I think there's positives and negatives. I think if they're getting educated, now we're not dropping to the bottom of the barrel to see who's going to charge, you know, the least amount for an eight by five. Right, which is where I feel we were when yes, digital is really coming out. And so there's always gonna be a place, I think, for volume photography. But again, this theft thing has really kind of put a chink in that armor. So if again, I think it like we said before, if we don't educate people, it's it's gonna be no different than the music industry, where you know, these music artists they don't really make much on their music anymore, they make money on live events and t-shirts. And the last night checked, nobody wants a t-shirt with my ugly mug on it.

Gary Pageau 23:16

So I mean, and it is one of those things where I think when you look at the media business in general changing, I think you've hit on a great point because physical media was where people made money, right? Album CDs and things, and to a large extent, that's come back, right? There's a whole nother thread we could do about print and LPs and CDs, and now DVDs are coming back, right? Because people are rebelling against streaming services. But until you know, somebody comes up with a streaming service for your photo, people are if you want a service, people are gonna have to pay for it.

Carl Bott 23:45

And you know, I think that's what it really boils down to is selling this as a service and experience versus I sell an eight by ten. Right. When I first got the contract with the YMCA, I went four meetings before I ever showed them a product. And because all I pitched to them is this is what I'm going to take off your plate. And he laughed and he says, I haven't even seen your work. Right. So he says, Hey, he says, Next time, can you bring something? And I said, Well, I can, but I mean, an eight by ten is an eight by ten, a five by seven is a five by seven. We all sell the same stuff. If you've got a photographer over here that's selling something that I don't have, let me know. I've got I've got five different palabs that I work with. I can't let's not talk product, let's talk how I can let you do what you do best, and that's run this organization, right? And let me do what I do best, which is take photos. So I think until we start getting back to that and we quit arguing composite versus traditional and all this stupid stuff I see all over social media, right?

Gary Pageau 24:46

It's or or even rebates, right? The whole discussion about rebating schools that's a whole nother issue, right? With with, you know, I gotta bribe a school to do business with me.

Carl Bott 24:58

Yeah, I think we need to come together as a collective, and the professionals in the industry will be able to kind of choke that out. But again, that's just that's just where that's the new shift that we're we're going into. And you know, you and I have talked about this. This is a very customer-centric job. We are in a people industry, we're not in the photography industry. If people think this is about taking photos, you're going to lose.

Gary Pageau 25:24

And if you think Snapchat is about protecting your copyrights, that's just part of it, but that's not the whole story.

Carl Bott 25:32

I think again, it's protecting the legacy of the photographers. I run my my photography company right now, and it is it's God, family, customers, and then that that's it. But it has to be in that order, right? It's like you have to focus on your customers, it has to be customer driven. Right. If I don't, I don't even hire photographers. I mean, that's that's that's that that's photography, right? Yeah, and that's exactly what we do. My interviews have no questions about photography.

Customer-Centric Culture And Hiring

Carl Bott 26:04

It is how do you work with kids? It's you know, what's your patience level?

Gary Pageau 26:08

Like, what's which is why I could never work for you. I have zero patience for that. Yeah, because I mean you're talking about someone who's willing to, you know, be at a school at five o'clock in the morning to set up lights and keep their cool and manage, you know, the people want to do retakes and the kid who won't let who won't comb his hair and all that stuff.

Carl Bott 26:28

Well, and you know, go back to your question about Snap Shield. I I'm actually bringing my customer service girl from Legacy over to Snap Shield because she knows that value, you know, and so my goal and and hope is that I can continue to run Snap Shield with that same customer-centric first, photographers first. This is our livelihoods. And again, if I don't help protect that, then Snap Shield doesn't have a place in the industry, right? So, I mean, that's that's my drive and that's my passion now, which I'm actually in the process of selling legacy because I am so passionate now about Snap Shield, and I think this is gonna be a game changer in the industry. So I want to put my alt into this.

Gary Pageau 27:14

So if people wanted more information about SnapShield, how to get the little code widget on their H partner with you in some other way, shape, or form, how would they do that? Where would they go?

Carl Bott 27:25

Yeah, absolutely. So the website is git snapshield.com. If anyone has questions specifically, they can either send a note through the website, get snapshield.com, or they can just message me. I'm super open to that. I'm I'm again, I I try to keep an open door policy. So if

How To Reach SnapShield

Carl Bott 27:45

there's any platforms that want to partner, same thing. Just you know, reach out to me. I'm more than happy to uh set up a meeting. And and in fact, I've got a meeting with another platform right after this podcast. I mean, I think it starts with the platforms to get integrated because that makes it so much easier again on the photographers, so it's more of a plug and play.

Gary Pageau 28:04

Great, Carl. Great to see you. I'm sure we will see each other at an industry event in the near future. And I hope all is well and thank you so much for your time.

Carl Bott 28:13

I appreciate you, sir. Thank you. Thanks.