Building Emotional Brand Connections, with Jean-Pierre Lacroix

Step into the psychology of branding with Jean-Pierre Lacroix, a veteran branding expert and leader of Shikatoni Lacroix Design, whose career spans creating iconic retail concepts like the Kodak Image Center. This eye-opening conversation challenges fundamental assumptions about what makes customers loyal to brands and why even industry giants sometimes catastrophically misunderstand their own value.

Lacroix reveals true branding begins far deeper than logos or slogans – it starts with a clear value proposition that connects emotionally with customers. "80% of all buying decisions are done emotionally and in a split second," he explains, sharing why his book "ThinkBlink Manifesto" focuses on winning that crucial moment of decision.

Through fascinating case studies, including Cracker Barrel's recent rebranding disaster, Lacroix explores how companies destroy customer loyalty when they abandon their emotional equity. He contrasts this with success stories like Chick-fil-A, whose owners greet customers personally and create "shareable emotional moments" that foster true brand loyalty.

For photo retailers specifically, Lacroix offers actionable strategies: celebrate photography as an art form, showcase local photographers' work, host classes that build community, and create in-store "selfie moments" that customers want to share. He emphasizes that competing on price or product selection alone is a losing strategy – the real opportunity lies in creating a sense of belonging that online giants can't replicate.

Discover the seven tenets of emotional branding from Lacroix's book, from understanding your core emotional equity to future-proofing against disruption. Whether you run a specialty retail

Mediaclip
Mediaclip strives to continuously enhance the user experience while dramatically increasing revenue.

Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

Visual 1st
Visual 1st is the premier global conference focused on the photo and video ecosystem.

Independent Photo Imagers
IPI is a member + trade association and a cooperative buying group in the photo + print industry.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Jean-Pierre Lacroix
• 7:53 Foundations of Brand Value Proposition
• 13:28 The Cracker Barrel Rebranding Fiasco
• 22:50 Emotional Connections in Fast Food
• 31:06 Strategies for Photo Retailers
• 38:12 The Seven Tenets of the Blink Factor

Transcript

Erin Manning: 0:02

Welcome to the Dead Pixel Society podcast, the photo imaging industry's leading news source. Here's your host, gary Pegeau. The Dead Pixel Society podcast is brought to you by MediaClip, advertag Printing and Independent Photo Imagers.

Gary Pageau: 0:17

Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixel Society podcast. I'm your host, gary Pegeau, and today we're joined by Jean-Pierre Lacroix with Shikotani Lacroix Design, and he is a longtime branding expert and in the pre-show, which I wish I would have recorded, we learned we probably crossed paths probably 20 some years ago in the industry, but we're not really talking about that right now. Hello Jean-Pierre, how are you today?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 0:45

Fantastic.

Gary Pageau: 0:46

So how did you get into this branding business? I mean, you've been in a long time. What energized you to get into this?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 0:53

Well, I couldn't find a job. I'm just kidding. No, you know, I grew up on an Air Force base. My dad was in the Air Force. I grew up in Germany, actually, and when we came back to Canada my dad got into the electronics business and then we got into the garden business and I always had an affinity for the arts. I was painting signs on the trucks and on the farm signs, but I also had an affinity for being in the Air Force and so I applied for two colleges.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 1:19

I applied for ROC, the Royal Military College in Kingston, and applied for a graphic design course at a local community college in Toronto and I said whoever responds to my application first is where I'm going to go. And obviously Sheridan College responded and I never made it into ROC. My grades weren't good enough. So you know, fate had it. I ended up being a designer and have never regretted making that decision, although design has changed dramatically a lot for the good, and I don't miss. I spend my time flying. I fly about 200,000 miles a year because we have offices in China and we do work around the world. So I got my Air Force value out of business travel.

Gary Pageau: 2:04

There you go.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 2:05

Yeah.

Gary Pageau: 2:06

Cool. So one of the things I want to talk to you about is branding, because one of the things that the misinterpretations I see with people when they talk about branding is the thing like a logo is a brand. Right, it's the Coca-Cola logo or something like that, and it's not that at all. So, in your world, when you're talking to a potential client or someone about branding, what are you talking about?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 2:30

Well, we start with the foundation of a brand, which is what is the value proposition that product service offers the consumers that they're willing to pay for. That is different than the competition. So we'll start there. We say what is your value proposition. But we go deeper. We don't just say what's your value proposition. We say what is your functional value proposition? There's also what's your emotional value proposition, because we know that 80% of all buying decisions are done emotionally and they're done in a split second.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 3:03

Hence the think blank book that I just released in the marketplace. It's about making that emotional connection. That's where we start, because that's the foundation. You know, if the foundation of a house is shaped or is not solid, the house is going to crumble sooner or later, and so that's where we start. Then we say how do you take that value proposition and translate it into the personification of that value proposition, which is, how do you apply it to a logo? How do you apply it to packaging? How do you apply it to the website, the mobile app, all these different what we call consumer touch points? But it really starts with where are we in the marketplace? What value do we bring?

Erin Manning: 3:46

How is?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 3:46

that relevant to our target group and where most brands get into trouble is that they've stayed static. They've lost their relevancy with their consumers as the consumer market shifted. Younger generations have different values. They're very focused on purpose brands and what's your purpose in the marketplace.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 4:10

And if brands haven't stayed relevant with these trends, they're in trouble. And there's this great model called the brand curve, which is an S curve and most brands do their transformational. When they're in crisis, at the top, at the peak relevancy, it's too late. Once that brand starts declining, it's very hard. Gravity takes hold. It's very hard for them to change. So the trick is, as the brand is growing, as they're building their equity in the marketplace, it's constantly evaluating are we relevant? Do we remain relevant? Is there anything that's going to change that relevancy? And that's what branding is all about.

Gary Pageau: 4:49

Well in the news, recently we've had a major branding error that everyone's been talking about, which is the whole cracker barrel fiasco.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 4:59

Now it seems to me like they did what you just said.

Gary Pageau: 5:01

They were in the market for a long time and then they decided they were going to make themselves relevant, and then now they've had to walk that back. What was your perception of, as this thing was unfolding in real time?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 5:14

Gary, the big mistake they've done is that they did not evaluate their emotional equities that they own with the consumers. Right, you know, they're very fixated on going after the younger generation and most brands are saying this. They're saying okay, how do we appeal to Gen Z and Gen Xers? How is our brand remaining relevant to them? But don't forget your core customers, because if you forget those, you're basically launching a new brand, which is basically what Cracker Barrel did. They lost the equity of their brand, their emotional equity. They moved away from the character and their logo. If you saw the rendering or the pictures of the inside of their restaurants, they're stark, they're pretty plain.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 5:53

There's no sense of discovery. You know the sense of shopping experience that the old Cracker Barrel had. I remember taking my daughter and my wife to a Cracker Barrel in Florida and it was a whole experience and it was catchy. It wasn't slick but it was familiar, it was comfortable, the food was great, the service was excellent and it was an experience. They lost that and that's why they're getting dinged. I mean kudos to the CEO that she's backtracking this strategy.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 6:22

Going back to the basics basics because they have to do that, but they're not the only ones. Jcpenney, remember the gentleman from Apple went and became president and they're the mistake, and this is the mistake most brand transformations do. We have this model we call the trust ladder. You have a vision of where you want to be and JCPenney went from where they want to be to the where they are, to where they want to be in one step and the reality. They should have stepped it and built the trust with the customers along that journey, and that's what Cracker Barrel did also. Maybe it would have been good just to start with the logo. Make a logo change, but keep the inside.

Gary Pageau: 6:59

Most of these are rolled out gradually when you see them.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 7:04

No, they didn't do that. So they lost the core equity, the emotional equity of their brand, which is back to their value proposition. They destroyed their value proposition.

Gary Pageau: 7:12

So the interesting thing I think is, as I was like most business people journalists reading this stuff, kind of you did some research and they were struggling right, cracker Barrel was struggling, especially post-COVID. They tried some home delivery and that helped. So I think they realized they thought it was a branding or awareness issue to, like you said, get Gen Z and Gen X to leave their basements and come to Cracker Barrel. But what should they focus on instead?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 7:50

They should have first understood what are the core equities of the experience that are the foundation of their brand and how those things link to this sense of authenticity, sense of belonging, which is our sixth tenet in our bar, the fifth tenet in my book, sense of belonging. They lost that sight and had they looked at that, they would have been able to create a modern experience. And the other insight I would say is this when you think we do work around the world, so if you're trying to appeal to a Gen Z, Gen X, it has to be a selfie moment. Think of the new design for Cracker.

Gary Pageau: 8:30

Barrel? There is no selfie moments.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 8:31

There's no situation where people can take a selfie. The old stores, the old concept, the old restaurant concept there's tons of selfie moments in there, where you're shopping in the store, taking up these unique items that you would never find the store taking up, you know, these unique items that you would never find anywhere else and taking a picture of you with it. They lost that. They lost the selfie moments.

Erin Manning: 8:51

Right.

Gary Pageau: 8:52

And it seems like that's in general. What's happening to kind of the fast food and fast casual industry is that most of their stores are kind of being denuded of personality. They're just boxes. If you look at a Taco Bell and a KFC and a McDonald's and a Burger King, they're all basically boxes. Right, there's no more playlists and their menus are becoming radically similar. Right, I'm waiting for Taco Bell to bring out burgers one of these days, because they're all adding each other's products. What do you think about that, that of neutralization of that, those emotional experiences?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 9:30

well, number one is we did a huge study this year and you can find on our website on the food service industry and what is actually driving. Why is it that chick-fil-a is so successful, and and some of the other chains are so successful as, and the brands like McDonald's and Starbucks and KFC are struggling. Why is that happening? As we dug into that and what we found out is this you have two factors. You have what we call attrition detractors. These are things that stop customers from leaving your brand, but they're not the ones that are going to drive that customer to come more often. So they'll always think of you for burgers, mcdonald's, but instead of going to McDonald's once a week, they're going to go to McDonald's once a month.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 10:15

It's killing the business. And then there's what we call the growth factors and it's one sentence, it's share, shareable moments. Shareable emotional moments is when you look at these brands chick-fil-a, chick-fil-a. When you walk in, you're greeted by the owner of the restaurant and they're thanking you for coming in. Name me one other fast food chain or fast casual chain where the manager's at the door thanking you for the business, picking up empty trays and walking around the tables and asking you are you enjoying your meal Like maybe one other fast casual or casual or fast food restaurant chain that does that Zero?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 11:00

So they've lost this emotional connection and they've lost the ability of sharing that emotional connection with their friends, because that's where true brand loyalty is. Brand loyalty is you're willing to wear on a tattoo the Harley Davidson logo, right? You're willing to be a badge for that brand. People are not walking around as a badge with McDonald's. Now I have to say Starbucks still has. We just finished a big study looking at Starbucks. They still have a lot of emotional equity in the marketplace, but they lost their badge value because they went from being an experience the third place to being a transactional place where takeout is more important than dine-in. And if you look at Starbucks new designs. They shrunk the whole front seating area. They made the takeout area much larger. So what they're saying to consumers is we're no longer an experience transaction and when you become a transaction, you lost the customer.

Gary Pageau: 12:05

Yeah, it doesn't make a difference Because I mean, that's exactly what's happened with other restaurants, right? I mean, if you look at a, you know you can see where they maybe knocked down an old McDonald's and they put up a new one in the same place and it's, you know, two thirds the size and it has mostly drive-through business.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 12:23

Exactly, and what you mean.

Gary Pageau: 12:29

And it's one of those things where I think they would say well, the trends are, people are doing more drive-thru, and I would say well, you're. Basically that's. The message you're sending them is that it's only for drive-thru.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 12:34

Yeah, so we did. You know we do a lot of studies to understand consumer dynamics and behavior, so we did a big study in the banking industry that mirrors the study in the food service industry. And this is the insight the more you move consumers to online banking, the less loyal they are to you.

Gary Pageau: 12:51

Right.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 12:52

The most loyal customers are those that use all your channels, and I would say fast food and fast casual is the same situation. The more they use all your channels, not just take out, the more loyal they're going to be to you, and so that's part of that again emotional connection, a sense of belonging. They're moving consumers away from that sense of belonging.

Gary Pageau: 13:15

Well, spinning this to the photography industry, what is more emotional than that right that people's memories and presenting people's pictures and sharing them, and all that? What would be your advice for, let's say, an independent photo store who's been in a community for a while 10, 15, maybe 20 years and you feel like you're getting stale, you think everyone knows who you are, and all that. What would be your first steps with someone like that?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 13:47

Well, you're talking to the guy that invented the Kodak Image Center.

Gary Pageau: 13:51

I am indeed. Yes, I knew that.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 13:53

We're the firm that invented and it went global, and we're also the firm that invented the Kodak KolorKins. We invented those characters to create those emotional connections, and so what I would say to the camera operators is this is service is really important. Product selection, service, price are really important, but they're not your drivers of growth. Your drivers of growth is allowing those customers to share their experiences using your equipment, your products, as part of their social network and giving you a plug on how you enable them to do this.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 14:31

So it needs to move from transaction We've got to sell more cameras this week. We've got to send more lenses, we've got to send some more of this or that to what is that experience? What's that experience when they come to your store and what's that experience after they left and they bought your product, and how do the two tie together? Now do you create that emotional connection back to your brand? Because people don't remember the features and benefits of a retail experience like features, products, services. They remember how you made them feel.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 14:59

So, how are you making your customers feel, and what is that experience that delivers that?

Gary Pageau: 15:04

So when you were developing the Kodak Image Centers around the world, I mean there was, you know, like we were talking prior to the recording. You know it didn't really take off here in the US to a great extent, but there was wildly successful in other regions of the world. Was that part of the mandate? Was that emotional connection, or was it just hey, we want to drop the Kodak brand everywhere because it sells more film or was it just?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 15:29

hey, we want to drop the Kodak brand everywhere because it sells more film. Oh, it's both. Obviously, I wanted to leverage the brand equity Kodak had in the marketplace for these independent dealers who are getting into the mini lab business, as you call. That was the big thing, but it was also. We had a concept that never took flight called memory stores, and memory stores were really about how do you take photography and imagery and apply it to merchandise. So I think a lot of what's missed in the marketplace is how do you merchandise memories, how do you make it tangible and marketable, and so that was how the whole idea that you could put it on mugs, you can put it on t-shirts, it could be a birthday you can create different settings, digital backgrounds.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 16:13

So it was this idea of making a link between memories and how it applies to people's lives, and I think that's the opportunity for photo studios is how do you? You know, especially those targeting the general consumer. You know, especially those targeting the general consumer. I mean, you've got, you've got like Henry's here, which are really upscale, sophisticated camera retailer. What they're selling is expertise. You know, come here, we're going to give you advice, expert advice, because we're all shooters, we all take pictures. But it's that relationship you build with that expert and the knowledge that they impart on you to allow you to explore your full capabilities that makes it work.

Gary Pageau: 16:51

I think one of the challenges we have as an industry in the photo business is you're not selling a prepackaged piece of goods, you're really selling somebody's memories and to actually have a transformation happen, where you're taking those pixels and you're transforming them onto a product, right, whether it's a canvas print or a metal print or a mug or whatever and it's very difficult to convey that online, right? So you have to do it physically in stores, but there's so many retailers who are pushing people online. What are your thoughts on that?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 17:30

Well, I'll come back to say that online sales have plateaued. They're at 17%. They were much higher during COVID. Will they grow? Yeah, but most retailers who've got into e-commerce are losing money on the platforms. Only the large, like Walmart's, making money, not sure. Target is, maybe they are, but most retailers who have entered the e-commerce are actually losing money. Cost of distribution, cost of returns, those are killers on margin. So you're, and you're also appealing to only a small segment of the population and they're your most, they're your least loyal customers. So think of this You're going to spend all that money in a channel where you're going to appeal to your least loyal customers.

Gary Pageau: 18:17

And probably most price sensitive.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 18:19

And most price sensitive and where Walmart's going to have your wheel of the barrel.

Erin Manning: 18:23

Right.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 18:24

Yeah, so not a good idea.

Gary Pageau: 18:26

So how would you recommend, since you do have some experience in the photo channel, to get people to get that traffic in the store from a branding standpoint right, not advertising, but you know how do you build that community? I mean, people are trying classes, they're trying photo walks, they're trying all of those kind of things which I think are having a degree of success. But what are some of your thoughts?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 18:54

Well, I think it starts fundamentally with the sense of belonging, and so creating a sense of belonging and what I mean by that is having your social strategy to drive brand ambassadors, because they're the ones that are going to speak about your brand to a broader spectrum. They're the ones that have credibility in the marketplace about why they would shop at your store. And so I first start focusing on how do I create social engagement? How do I create brand ambassadors? What is the role of the store to drive that? What's the role of my website to drive that? Sure, it starts with social selling first. Believe it or not, it's a different paradigm, because now more and more consumers are buying that online, they're buying through social media platforms.

Gary Pageau: 19:39

Right, they're buying through recommendations at least. Yeah exactly.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 19:42

And so that's where I would start and I would leverage all the other brand touch points to drive the consumer to that social engagement and brand and brand ambassador vantage and that would drive. And then you say, ok, what, what are the within those other dynamics, those other brand touch points, what are the strategies to make that happen? Ok, giving online, giving courses inside your store, that's a great platform because that's networking in that sense of belonging. But the mistake they make is how do you take that and link it back to social Right? There's a break there, it's not seamless. And then, if you look at all the other activities, how those drive social engagement, Right.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 20:26

Complete and the other mistake that most organizations make these independent camera stores. They have great ideas because they're entrepreneurs you know it's the shiny new thing and they get excited about right but they're not sustainable. Like, how long have you been doing this podcast?

Gary Pageau: 20:42

Oh, this one. This is a five and a half years.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 20:44

All right, right. If you started this podcast and then gave it a break for six months and then started over again and gave it a break for six months, would you be successful?

Gary Pageau: 20:54

No, of course not.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 20:55

So why would they?

Gary Pageau: 20:56

they're doing the same. Some would say I'm not successful now, but I have you on, so I have to be somewhat successful.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 21:03

There you go. Well, you're successful now. But if you think you know one of the key factors, if you ask me, you know what? What? What is going to drive success? It's focus and persistent on a focused strategy. Right, and persistent is the key word. You know, they start great initiatives, they have these workshops. It's driven by one employee who's passionate, who's really involved, and then they move on to another job and then, all of a sudden, the whole thing just craters and there's a void Right.

Gary Pageau: 21:32

Yeah, that, no, I've seen that happen. Right, it does happen where you know. Sometimes even I've seen it where the the owner of the company has like an employee who gets almost they get a following right within their community because they're the person who does like the film, photo walks or they do certain things. They almost see that employee as a threat and they don't want them involved anymore. They change their job. It's like, oh, you need to do this, and then that whole experience just drops away no, no, I think that's the biggest mistake, that now don't get me wrong.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 22:06

you need to set the guardrails on what's acceptable practice for an organization so that you don't get slammed in the community because of these unacceptable photograph images appearing or an approach that is hard sell and not community driven. But once you set those guardrails, let me ask you a question how do you achieve brand ambassadors if you don't allow your employees to be brand ambassadors?

Erin Manning: 22:34

Right.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 22:34

Right, I mean, by putting those you know handcuffs on them, you're limiting your ability to drive growth.

Gary Pageau: 22:42

Sure, how often do you think a store should be refreshing their look inside? Right, I'm not talking about the total rebrand, but you know moving things around or whatever, because you always hear about that. It's like you know, every quarter I got to change it up. What are your thoughts on like store refreshes inside? Again, I'm not talking about like a rebrand, I'm just talking about, like you know, refreshing the merch and all that.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 23:07

Well, typically today the model model is this is a retail or refresher store when the lease is up, so they'll either negotiate with the landlord some enticement to renew the lease and in there there's some dollars for refreshing the store so that they're hedging their investments, and typically that's a seven year, five, seven to 10 year lease.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 23:36

You know, depending on if you're in a high, high, high traffic mall, then it'll be five years. If you're in a street side, it could be 10 years, right, and that typically historically has been kind of the cycle of renovation, if you want, or brand refresh if you want, but that's a mistake. You want, or a brand refresh if you want, but that's a mistake, because consumers, now there's lots of competition online and other retailers and other channels of retailers that these camera stores are competing with, so you're constantly having to say come in, we've done something different, come in, we've done something different. So that's on the renovation side. So I'd say five years.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 24:08

Start thinking at year four, start planning for year five.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 24:13

But the other thing is that you know we do a lot of work in the electronic retailing and one of the key principles is create some key strike zones as they enter the store and some focal walls where those are constantly changing, like with the feature of the month, the week, and say new product of the week, product of the month or employee pick.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 24:35

But you can change because what you're trying to do is communicate to a customer who may have entered your store Because you think of photography, there's getting getting the images process, which could be cyclical, or buying buying film to buying equipment, equipment. They're not buying that every week, they're buying that maybe once a year, maybe every two years or maybe every three years. And so you're losing that cycle of relationship. That happens. So by having something new in the window, something that entices they may not want to buy it, into something that entices they may not want to buy it, but the fact they walk into your store gives the salespeople an opportunity to continue that relationship so that when they are going to buy, you're the place you're going to go to.

Gary Pageau: 25:17

You know, and the other thing is is not necessarily make it about a product, right, because I mean I'll talk to retailers and say, hey, oh, the new Nikon's out. So that's what I'm going to push. But, you know, I think a really good analogy here might be like independent bookstore, because one of the things that's really cool about independent bookstores is you walk in and they'll have a shelf or a table where it's our staff picks, yeah, and the staff will, you know, write a little card. Hey, I used, I read this book and I think you'll like it, kind of thing.

Gary Pageau: 25:45

And I may not be interested in it, but at least my perception of the bookstore is much higher, because now I think at least their staff reads books right.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 25:55

Yeah. So I'd give you another, to your audience, another key insight. So we did this another big study on the importance of community. Is being part of the community a key driver of loyalty? And the answer is yes, a resounding yes. And so when you think of these independent retailers there's a camera store operators your competitive advantage is you're in the community, you're not a chain. And even if you're a chain, you're a small chain, you're part of the community. And so amplifying your commitment to the community is critical. And so having a photo contest where you actually showcase people from the community taking pictures, it's brilliant.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 26:37

You're celebrating the talent in the community, you're elevating photography and people who are passionate about photography in the community. Right, and so highlighting photographs and the name of the photographer or a picture of the photographer of that individual is critical. They live in this neighborhood. So, again, anything you can do as an operator, a camera store owner, to tie your activities to the community sponsoring a local baseball team, a local baseball team those are really important, and you being responsible for taking a picture of the team those are all really important things that drive growth and loyalty, but also to help you differentiate from the big chains.

Gary Pageau: 27:20

Yeah, because, like you said at least, in photo unless you're talking about Walgreen or CVS or someone, there's not a lot of large chains to compete with anymore. There's not, but then you think of when you start thinking of equipment you've got Walmart, Then you're competing nationally with B&H and Adorama and all those folks yeah.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 27:38

Exactly so. You're competing and those are big ticket items with some reasonable margins. It's not the frequency, but you want to make sure that when they're making those, those big ticket buying decisions coming to you, but also, yeah, the idea like at the end of the day, the mobile device is kind of, in a way, undermined the industry. It's actually elevated photography. So everyone takes pictures, but it's elevated average photography, not quality photography.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 28:12

And so NAPL may argue this point, but I don't care. The idea here is that if you celebrate people who do exceptional photography, who are not professional photographers, you're communicating that everyone can be that way, so you're becoming an inclusive model to let more people participate in the photography.

Gary Pageau: 28:35

Aspirational.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 28:37

Yeah. So I'll tell you a little story. So we were doing a big project for Eastman Kodak. It was a chain of portrait stores in California, your Expression we were doing the rebranding, reinvention, leveraging Kodak's technology as part of the infrastructure, and we were doing research and we're asking consumers why aren't you getting your portrait done Like, why is it? Well, you know what? And the common, common comment was well, all those pictures of those people, they're all models. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough to be taking, to have a professional photograph taken of me, right? So what did we do? In the windows, we took a picture of a mother and daughter, a picture of a gentleman, a business person. We said John Smith from Bakersfield.

Erin Manning: 29:25

Right.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 29:26

Martha and Rose from XYZ and we humanized. We said you don't have to look good to have a portrait taken, and I think it's. The same thing goes to photography. You don't have to aspire to be a professional photography to take enjoyment in taking pictures.

Gary Pageau: 29:44

Right, and then doing something with them. Right, because I think the taking pictures part there's no barrier to that, right. Like you said, smartphones are everywhere and I think to some extent it's diminished, if you will, the utility of utility of photography. Right, because you are just taking pictures of receipts and everything right, there's no cost really to do it and I think there's actually been a backlash um to that where you have people moving towards film, back to using film and doing prints, where they may not have been doing prints longer because they want that authentic experience. Because one of the criticisms I heard about is that with smartphone cameras is the pictures are too good. They're fixing too many of the flaws. They don't even look like human beings anymore, with some of the processing involved.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 30:29

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And then in independent camera stores or the doorway, the promoters, if you want, of returning to the art of photography, right, and that's what we're talking about here. We're talking about the art of photography right.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 30:45

And the art is making investment in the cameras you use, making investment in the quality of the films and then, obviously, the finishing of those images, from photo finishing to application to merchandise or within a picture book, right, right, and so that's the opportunity and the good news is, you're right, there's a revival. There's a revival in vinyl records, right, I mean there's a whole resurgence of things.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 31:11

I mean, we do work with Fuji right now. We do all of their packaging for their instant cameras. There's a huge revival of instant photography with Fuji, huge yeah. And they're competing with, you know, with mobile devices.

Gary Pageau: 31:27

Yeah, yeah, no, that's a big business for them, is the Instax business, yeah, so spinning that back to Kodak a little bit, we were talking a little bit about kind of branding sort of. You know, kodak has so much brand equity in the consumer mind right, the Kodak moments and they do some licensing business right where they do license it. But I've always felt that there's more to be done with that. What are some of your thoughts on what, like, kodak could do with that equity in the marketplace?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 31:58

They moved away from Kodak moments, moments like sharing memories, which was the core equity. They lost sight that sharing those memories didn't have to be.

Gary Pageau: 32:08

Well, and to be honest, they spun that off right and it's a whole other thing now. But yeah, you're right, they kind of abandoned that, yeah.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 32:15

And that was because it was silver halide technology. They limited their view that the end benefit to the consumer wasn't that it was silver halide, that was just a vehicle for the consumer to capture those special memories. They lost sight of that, but put that aside. So I would say the Kodak, if I was sitting in their boardrooms today and not saying well, On the 19th floor On the 19th floor. The last time I was there, that floor was empty. But anyways, that aside, I would say people are capturing an immense amount of pictures.

Erin Manning: 32:49

Right.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 32:51

An immense amount of pictures. So the ability of storing those images is, you know, with Apple, demonstrated. It's not the device, it's what the device connects to and how that connection control helps people control their lives. I think there's an opportunity from that perspective of being able to control their content, if you like, in a way that's better organized. I'd say that's one.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 33:20

I think the other one is they have to get back to promoting the art of photography. You need to take an advocate position to celebrate where they were, celebrate the art of photography. Kodak survived. Their medical device division continues to do well, I mean. Our x-ray business continues to do well, I mean, although a lot of it's now been digitized and AI, but it's the consumer side, it's celebrating the art of photography. They need to bring that back.

Gary Pageau: 33:56

So, speaking of, we haven't really talked much about the the book. Can you talk a little bit about your new book, which I think just came out in may, which kind of encapsulates a lot of what we were talking about? Can you talk a little bit about, uh, the book?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 34:07

yeah. So we coined the phrase uh, blink factor in 1990. We're doing work for pizza hut in the us and people were calling it Red Roof. And so we went back and looked what does that mean? Well, people make instant decisions based on color and shape. And so I coined the phrase the blink factor and then trademarked it in 1996. That was 10 years before the blink book came out by Malcolm Caldwell. This is my fourth book.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 34:37

I wanted to provide a legacy to my employees and to my clients and to business owners like the ones who are watching this show, to say you know what? The future isn't functional, the future is emotional. You're competing on price, you're competing on promotions, you're competing on features. You're never going to win. It's a declining, it's commoditized model. You need to win on the emotions, because 80% of all buying decisions are emotionally driven and they're done in less than a split second. And so owning that split second and making those emotional connections. And so how do you do that?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 35:12

We created seven tenets and they build on each other. For the first tenet, it's really understanding what is your core emotional equity, what's that value proposition that's emotive, that you own, that you need to leverage? Number two is how do you take those emotional equities, translate it to design the customer experience, the employee experience, the packaging, the signing? You know your identity, all those things. And then you go into what's the brand story? Right, we learn through storytelling. What's the story you're telling your customers? What's the story you're telling your employees? How is that tied to your value proposition and to your experience? Are you using your store as a canvas to tell that story? Then it's personas. We call it context. Who are your core target group? What's not just your demographics?

Gary Pageau: 35:59

or psychographics, Then it's personas.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 36:00

Can't we call it context? Who are your core target group? What's not just your demographics or psychographics, but what's your lifestyle needs Like? If you think of photography, there's segments of photographers, there's professional freelancers, there's professionals, and then you've got weekend amateurs and then you've got everyday users and then you've got occasional users and those have different needs and priorities. And understanding those, you can build products around it and service models around it and be that expert. And then from there, once you define their personas and their customer's story, you get into really understanding what are the key factors driving their motivations. And that's really about understanding what are the metrics and the sense of belonging.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 36:43

So the next tenet, sense of belonging, is now you've told the story. How do you get them involved in that story? How do you get them to tell that story? And from there, how do you measure that you're successful? And the last tenet is how do you future-proof your brand? How do you avoid what Kodak did? How do you avoid that you got blindsided? How do you avoid how Blockbuster got blindsided? You know. How do you avoid, you know, compusa. How do you avoid these brands that were dominant in the marketplace, that got disrupted by emerging technologies and knowledge? So how do you stay relevant in those? So those are the seven tenets technologies and knowledge.

Gary Pageau: 37:20

So how do you stay relevant? So those are the seven tenets. So where can people go to?

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 37:27

learn more about what you do and the book. Where can people get more information? Well, they can go to our website, wwwsldcom. If you go there, you go under resource, you'll see or actually on the landing page, you'll see a page with a book. You can actually download for free the first chapter of the book and then you can decide if you want to read further.

Gary Pageau: 37:50

Awesome, well, thank you so much. It's been a great conversation talking about this. When we booked this call, I didn't realize you had all this background with Kodak Image Centers and all that. It's been a great refresher, but it's also, you know, not necessarily a look back but a look forward, and I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

Jean-Pierre Lacroix: 38:04

Thank you, Gary.

Erin Manning: 38:07

Thank you for listening to the Dead Pixels Society podcast. Read more great stories and sign up for the newsletter at wwwthedeadpixelssocietycom.