Social Media Mastery with Less Effort with Katie Brinkley

Are you exhausted trying to keep up with endless social media demands while running your business? What if you could achieve better results with just four strategic posts?

Katie Brinkley, founder of Next Step Social, author, and podcast host, reveals a game-changing approach to social media that's perfect for photo retailers, lab owners, and camera stores who need an effective digital presence without sacrificing their core operations. Having built her agency from a single client to a team of eleven, Brinkley understands the struggle to maintain authentic social connections while managing a growing business.

"The last thing we need is more content," Brinkley explains, noting that more than 75 million pieces of content hit Instagram daily. Her four-post strategy works with platform algorithms rather than against them, generating significantly higher engagement while requiring less time and effort. This methodical approach - awareness, elaboration, community, and action - creates a natural journey that builds trust before asking for anything from potential customers.

Perhaps most surprising is Brinkley's advice about where to post. She reveals why personal profiles dramatically outperform business pages for organic reach, and why company leaders should become the social face of their business despite potential discomfort. For photo industry professionals who've built YouTube channels as content libraries, Brinkley offers specific guidance on integrating video content with social platforms for maximum impact.

The best part? This strategy delivers measurable results quick

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Chapters

• 12:56 [Ad] Real Talk About Marketing
• 13:44 (Cont.) Social Media Mastery with Less Effort with Katie Brinkley

Transcript

Erin Manning: 0:02

Welcome to the Dead Pixels Society podcast, the photo imaging industry's leading news source. Here's your host, Gary Pageau. The Dead Pixels Society podcast is brought to you by Mediaclip, Advertek Printing, and Independent Photo Imagers.

Gary Pageau: 0:18

Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixels Society podcast. I'm your host, Gary Pageau, and today we're joined by Katie Brinkley with Next Step Social. She's an author, a podcast host and a marketing guru coming to us from Denver, Colorado. Hi, Katie, how are you today?

Katie Brinkley: 0:34

I am doing fantastic. How are you?

Gary Pageau: 0:36

Good. So you've been doing this social media stuff for a while, but it was sort of an impromptu or unplanned experience getting into that. So how did that happen?

Katie Brinkley: 0:47

Yeah, so I started back in the days of MySpace by helping bands with their MySpace pages and, yeah, I know, back then social media as a job like that was just you know, who would want to pay anybody to be on social media? That's a joke. And so I actually landed my dream job right out of college and I was the postgame reporter for the Rockies and the Broncos here in Denver at 850k away, yeah, and it was awesome. I loved what I did. And then this thing called SiriusXM came out and everyone in the radio industry panicked. And so when SiriusXM came out, that's when I moved into marketing and I was the marketing manager for the Rockies TV station and, in addition to doing traffic buys and media buys and traditional marketing, I was also tasked with doing the social media marketing and that was my favorite part of my job and I absolutely loved what I did.

Katie Brinkley: 1:46

And then, unfortunately, my position was moved to Atlanta and I'm a Colorado gal, you know. I mean I've got my shirt saying the mountain always. I got my mountain tattoo. I'm a Colorado gal. I can't imagine ever leaving here. And so I chose to take the severance package and I started my own business, and that was about a decade ago now and absolutely love what I do. We we post on social media for businesses and create content for them. We edit podcasts. I love going into work every day, so did you have a?

Gary Pageau: 2:19

broadcast background in college. Is that what? You came into. So you're, you're a was it broadcast and marketing, or was it just?

Katie Brinkley: 2:25

you know, I gonna so I was a journalism major and you were talent, as I said yeah.

Katie Brinkley: 2:31

And so when I worked at the radio station in college, part of my job duty was to get bands to send us their music for free and now I'm really dating myself, but but we would write handwritten letters and put them in the mail asking people to send us their CDs. I know, man, I know. I thought, well, man, this is a giant time suck, there has to be a better way. And that's where I again, I went all in on MySpace and started connecting with bands and just saying like hey, would you send us your CD? So they were in charge of all of it, but I was just doing it all electronically. But that's when I quickly realized how powerful of a tool social media could be and, like I said, I just kind of fell in love with it from there and always found ways to learn different strategies and analytics and data and how to make it work for me.

Gary Pageau: 3:23

You're freshly laid off and you have a severance package. Did you have any clients lined up or what was the beginning of the business as a business as opposed to a side hustle?

Katie Brinkley: 3:36

Yeah, so when I was laid off, I then quickly found out that I was pregnant, so I was like yeah, I was like, well, this is bad timing.

Katie Brinkley: 3:42

I was like, well, who's going to want? This is bad timing. I was like, well, who's going to want to hire me? And then me say like, okay, well, by the way, I'm going to need to take, you know, maternity leave. So I have a great boss. And she and I were talking and I was kind of like saying, like I don't know what to do, what's next? And she said, well, katie, you're so good at social media, I would love it if you found a job where social media was all that you did. I was like, well, let's see what I can do. And I went out on uh, upwork and got my first two clients, and two clients turned into three and then turned into four and soon I was like man, I'm making more money than I was at the tv station which was that hard to do probably right yeah, um it is not that, uh, glamorous um in the radio is not, is not, but no

Katie Brinkley: 4:30

no, um, it's, but I've started making more money and I was like maybe I'm onto something here. And then I, uh, hired my first employee, and then I hired my second and, before you know it, now I have a team of 11. And yeah, it's, it's, it's just grown from there, but it was it started, as you know me with my laptop, working between you know, nap times and on weekends, and it just, it just grew now are these your nap?

Katie Brinkley: 4:55

times, or the baby's nap time. Yeah, I know right, I wish my my now 10 year old. She was a terrible sleeper. She did not sleep through the night until she was five. So I mean I'm very good at taking naps.

Gary Pageau: 5:11

So it sounds to me like you're really good at budgeting your time. So let's talk about time and efficiency, because that's sort of your thing, and the reason why I wanted to have you on was talking about you. Know, if you're a small business owner, you're a photo retailer, you're a camera business owner, you're a photo retailer or a camera store, you're a photo lab, your day-to-day business is not doing social media and you may or may not have the resources or the desire to hire a Katie. So you've got some strategies to efficiently manage your time, to have effective social media without making it your full-time job. So what's like? Step number one?

Katie Brinkley: 5:47

Most people are business owners first, including me and even though I have a social media agency, it does not mean that I love to be on social media every day. Right, right, I love to get new business, I love to meet new people, but just going out there and doing some trending dance routine on TikTok, that sounds like my nightmare.

Gary Pageau: 6:10

I knew I wanted to have you on for a reason.

Katie Brinkley: 6:14

So I wanted to look at my own social media and be like man, how am I supposed to get more clients if I don't want to be on social media so much Because I'm on it for all my clients all the time? Right and honestly, the last thing we need is more content, Right, right, there's over 75 million pieces of content posted on Instagram every day. Right, that's a lot of content, and that's just Instagram.

Katie Brinkley: 6:39

Yeah, and so if there's that much content being published, like, how are you going to stand out? We don't need more of it, we just need better. So I started looking at all of these social media platforms and decided what posts are doing the best on each platform. Which ones actually get more reach, which posts get the most likes, the most engagement, which ones are the best at getting people to get off of social media? And when I looked at all the data behind it, I found out well, I don't need to post so much. What if I just posted the way the platforms wanted me to and I just created better content? And everything changed. And that's when the four post strategy came to life. I wrote about it in my book, the Social Shift, and it's designed so that you can show up on fewer social media platforms and get more reach, more impressions and, most importantly, more business. It's by creating better content.

Gary Pageau: 7:38

So what are the two or three things that make content quote unquote better? Because there's different objectives, right? There's. You know, some people just want brand awareness, right? I just want people to be aware of things. Maybe click-throughs aren't great, but let's assume, for example, that we're talking about someone who has their measurement is going to be. I need people to click on this to get to my website to either look at something or maybe even order something. To click on this to get to my website to either look at something or maybe even order something. So what would be an example of a tactic you could use to fulfill that?

Katie Brinkley: 8:15

Yeah, and I think that the first thing that you need to look at is who's connected with you and following you on all these platforms. Which ones are actually working for you. So for me, I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn and Facebook. Linkedin, I get a lot of agency work for my business, and then on Facebook, I get a lot of my coaching clients from there. So those are my two highest ticket offers. Now, instagram is actually where I have the largest audience. I think I have like 8,000 followers there, but I don't really post there anymore. I've kind of all but abandoned it. Oh really.

Gary Pageau: 8:52

Yeah, I mean for the business side. Do you have a personal Instagram that's sort of like on the side, or do you not even do that for personal?

Katie Brinkley: 8:59

No, no Time is money, man I mean, and this is the thing that you need to keep in mind is that these platforms want you to spend time on their app Right, and if you're, I get it. There's schedulers out there. Metricool is my favorite scheduler. You can just tap a button and it can go everywhere. I get it. But being everywhere is not being smart. What if you could post just once a week and have better engagement and better reach than if you just posted a bunch of boring content everywhere, a bunch of white noise?

Gary Pageau: 9:33

Or you're copying somebody else's trend, which again helps the app and feeds that, but it doesn't really make you stand out.

Katie Brinkley: 9:41

Yeah, exactly. So I think that it just comes down to where are you seeing the best ROI? And for me it was on LinkedIn and Facebook, and so what I do is I have the four post strategy there and I have the end goal in mind. So, essentially, what are you looking for this month? So maybe in the month of May you're doing a sale like a end of the year sale or end of the spring season or end of summer sale.

Katie Brinkley: 10:11

I don't know. End of school sale. You want to try and get as many people into your business as possible. So if you have enough people that are saying, okay, well, that's my end goal, who follows me on social media? Let's say, you're looking at your audience and you, you know it's on LinkedIn. You have a lot of business professionals. You know why would they care about an end of the school sale? How can you reposition this so that it's going to appeal to them? You know, let's say, on Facebook, you have a lot of people, a lot of parents, that follow you. You know how can you position this for them.

Katie Brinkley: 10:45

And when you write your content specifically for your target audience, it helps you stand out like, oh, they're talking directly to me, right. And if you just say end of the season sale, that's fine. But what if you could say get your passport photos half off, right? Well, passport photo, okay, cool, because this at our end of the season, end of the school year sale, because a lot of people are probably going to be traveling, right. So think about what it is, who your target audience is on each of these platforms and why they would care about what it is that you have to offer.

Gary Pageau: 11:21

So if you're so let's assume, though you know, maybe someone doesn't know their audience. Really, how do you look at that? Like specifically, how do you look at your LinkedIn audience without saying, hey, you know, these are CEOs. I mean, can you do that without, for example, paying, because a lot of these platforms obviously want you to pay, or do you have to pay to get to that?

Katie Brinkley: 11:53

Luckily, all these platforms, you do not need to pay. You can go in and look at it. If you're a LinkedIn creator account, a Facebook creator account, that's all free. It's just changing the toggle in your settings. You get to see all of the data. And then, if you're also a business page, you get to see all that data. Again, I mentioned Metricool earlier. That's an all-in-one platform that you can look at and see all the data, so that is an added cost, but I think that that's one of the things where, if you're not looking at your data at least quarterly, that's where you're missing your biggest opportunity, because you don't know who you're talking to. And when you don't know who you're talking to, then, honestly, you're talking to no one.

Gary Pageau: 12:34

So let's talk a little bit about Facebook specifically, because you always hear things about. You know it's dying, it's dead, TikTok where it's at, or whatever. But how do you evaluate a platform as being appropriate for your audience? Because there may be audiences, businesses, where TikTok is great, right, it may deliver for you. So what are some of the things people look at when they evaluate a platform?

Katie Brinkley: 13:35

Yeah, and I think that you know a lot of you know your audience, gary. It probably has a business page.

Gary Pageau: 13:43

Oh, sure, absolutely yeah.

Katie Brinkley: 13:44

Right, I think everyone should have a business page, just so that strangers on the internet know that you're a real business. But this is the thing Unless you're running ads, you're not going to see very good results from your business page. It's just, unfortunately, that's just the way it is. If you have a thousand followers on your business page, you're only going to be seen between one and 3%. Right, that sucks. Yeah, it's not a good return. That's why it's really important to have somebody that's willing to be the face of your business.

Gary Pageau: 14:15

Okay.

Katie Brinkley: 14:15

I recommend having the COO, you know, cmo, maybe CEO founder, be that face of the business. You can still then reshare everything to the company page, but personal pages get way more reach.

Gary Pageau: 14:31

Okay.

Katie Brinkley: 14:32

And you can still set yourself up as a creator so you can see all that data and analytics. So I think that if you have a Facebook page, look at your staff, look at your team and say who can we position as being the quote unquote influencer of our business and let's push all of our content through them. First, let's push all of our content through them first.

Gary Pageau: 14:52

Would it make sense if you've got different parts of your business? Maybe you have different creators for those businesses. So, for example, you know, let's say you've got a camera store and they've got a rental counter right, they've got, they rent cameras and then they also have a different place where they sell cameras and different parts where they print pictures. Would it make sense to have someone each of those areas or putting it all in one basket with one person?

Katie Brinkley: 15:18

Yeah, I think you know I'm the face for my business, you know, and I'm the CEO. There's 11 of us here but I go out and do the speaking. I wrote the book, I had the podcast, you know this is what I spend majority of my time doing is having conversations.

Gary Pageau: 15:39

And this is where I think that, as a CEO, it makes a lot of sense to have the CEO be that face. You know, I've seen it and we talked about this before we started recording that you know you've had people are reluctant to do that in the industry because they're concerned that if they tap the you know their camera guru to be the face and then the face leaves, the face of the company leaves. So you're saying it should be somebody in management, even if they're not comfortable doing it. That's the other challenge, right in retail specifically, are, you know, older people? They're not young and hip. Now there are young and hip people coming in, but for the most part there's a lot of gray hair and in the industry. So should they just play into the awkwardness or what's the story there?

Katie Brinkley: 16:23

no, I mean like not everyone needs to, you know, be dancing on tiktok. I'm not on video. I mean like that's why I have a podcast, it's because I feel way more comfortable being behind my camera off. A lot of people still read Shocker right, but a lot of people still read. Ai is changing the game. You know there's AI tools out there where you can make videos and short form videos and long form videos with AI, so that you can still show up even if you are a little camera shy.

Gary Pageau: 16:53

You've got four post strategy. You've mentioned that a couple of times. Could you kind of go over that briefly what that is, because I think that's something that you know. When I was perusing you as a potential guest, that was one of the things. I think that was. Hey, you know that's manageable.

Katie Brinkley: 17:11

Well, yeah, and it doesn't need to be. It can be four posts a week, four posts a day. I mean if you're crazy, but I mean like, for me, I post three times a week, but I do this four post strategy for it. It's designed, like I said, so that, after looking at all the data of all the platforms, creating the content that works within the algorithm that's going to help you get the most reach and the most engagement. So the four post strategy is designed to where you really are reverse engineering, what you want people to do.

Katie Brinkley: 17:44

So we have this podcast on Dead Pixels Society with Gary and guest Katie Brinkley, and you want people to listen to the show. So we'll just use that as the example, right, and the call to action at the end of the week is going to be listen to the show, right. Very first post is the awareness post, and this is where you are making people problem aware and also you're getting the most awareness, brand awareness. So you're using the algorithm to get the most reach. So what does that mean? Okay, so, like on Facebook, right now, the posts that are getting the most reach in the algorithm are those just plain old, one sentence on, like a different colored background.

Gary Pageau: 18:28

Right.

Katie Brinkley: 18:29

And with that you'll do like a bold statement. Ask a question, maybe share a statistic and maybe for if you're promoting this one on Facebook. You could say 92% of people post eight times a week on Facebook. How many times do you post? That's it, Right? You're asking a question. People are going to engage with it. Comment You're making people aware of that. There's a lot of posting happening. It's also going to get pushed out into the algorithm more.

Gary Pageau: 19:00

Okay.

Katie Brinkley: 19:00

Everyone that engages with that post is going to see your next post, so you've told the algorithm. These people are interested in this content. Linkedin maybe you share a LinkedIn poll Instagram. Maybe you share a LinkedIn poll Instagram maybe you do a reel. So all these platforms have different ways of getting the most awareness for your posts.

Gary Pageau: 19:19

So it's almost like a teaser.

Katie Brinkley: 19:20

Yes.

Gary Pageau: 19:21

So let's say, for example, I want my podcast to be successful. I've done 200 and some episodes, but we're not very successful. We want to promote this and it comes out Thursdays at 2 PM Eastern time. It's like clockwork never misses. So you're saying maybe Monday or Tuesday I do a hey, katie's coming up, or or some sort of.

Katie Brinkley: 19:41

Nope, not even know that. What I just said about like share a statistic, share a bold statement. You don't need to post on social media, so much you know. Posting more than once a week on social media is for losers. You don't need to post on social media, so much you know posting more than once a week on social media is for losers.

Katie Brinkley: 19:55

I don't know, something stupid, something that's going to make people stop the scroll and say what is happening here? What is he talking about? I have opinions on this. Okay, I want to chime in.

Gary Pageau: 20:05

Okay, so then. So I, so I posted that on Monday, or Monday, and then what's the next step?

Katie Brinkley: 20:12

The next post is going to be your elaboration post, so this is where you step into the spotlight as the go-to expert On LinkedIn. Maybe it's a LinkedIn newsletter On Instagram, maybe it's a carousel post On Facebook, maybe it's a long caption and it's going to be elaborating on the problem that you made people aware of. Right?

Katie Brinkley: 20:37

This is if you have a podcast like you do you could say maybe you just run it through a tool like CapShow and say you know, like the four reasons why posting more than four times a week on social media is killing your social media strategy as a business owner. And then you can go in and you're just getting the tips from what we talked about on today's show.

Gary Pageau: 20:56

So it's almost you do it before it drops, not after it drops.

Katie Brinkley: 21:01

Yes.

Gary Pageau: 21:02

So let's twist this a little bit. Let's take it out of helping Gary run his business better and get into the audience. So if someone's having an event that you want to make people aware of, let's say it's a photo walk, class or something like that, and that's on Saturday, so you're saying on Monday or Tuesday you post something like 90% of people get the settings on their camera wrong, and then that's the engagement, and then maybe you start teasing through the capsule reel or what have you, and then you start teasing the specifics on the photo walk.

Katie Brinkley: 21:37

Yep, exactly, and you're just getting into the specifics. You're elaborating on the topic that you just were making people problem aware of, okay.

Gary Pageau: 21:47

Awesome, awesome. So that's two, that's two, that's two.

Katie Brinkley: 21:51

And not once did I mention that we have the photo thing this weekend event. Not once did I mention that we have a podcast episode. I'm just showing up, I'm creating conversation. I'm saying like, hey, this is. You know how smart I am? Look at that, you learned something. Here's the value.

Katie Brinkley: 22:07

The third post should be your favorite. It's called the community post and this is the post that allows you to share. You like this is this is what social media was made for be a great spot for a client testimonial. It could be a story about how, Gary, you know you've been trying to grow your show and you've been posting all these years and you know you kind of have all these shorts, you have all this stuff going on and you know, really, social media wasn't moving the needle for growing your show and you're frustrated, and it actually wasn't until you kind of threw all of the materials you had into the fire and said I'm just going to start fresh, I'm going to start new and I'm going to start posting less and I'm only going to post on Facebook. Right, and everything changed when you did this four post strategy and now you have more downloads, Now you have this, You're sharing your story and people can say oh man, so Gary's already done this, Of course I trust him.

Katie Brinkley: 23:11

That's so cool, Right, Okay. Or or a client story, you know like oh well, I helped, so-and-so do this.

Gary Pageau: 23:22

So, in the context of you know my audience, it would be something like you maybe share somebody who's been on a previous photo walk and maybe they talked about how much they learned Exactly, exactly. Okay, so you want to touch on the benefit of whatever it is you're talking about in an authentic, real way, not just marketing speak.

Katie Brinkley: 23:38

Totally. And this can be the same post on all the platforms. Sure, like social, this, this is a true social media, right here, this is you talking about you sharing your story and saying like this is look, I've been there either by helping a client with this problem or I've overcome this problem myself and this is how I benefited from it. So that's three, and if you notice, we still never mentioned that you have a podcast.

Erin Manning: 24:04

Right, exactly.

Katie Brinkley: 24:06

So the fourth post is the action post, and this is where you are asking people to leave social media, to go one step further with you. Right, to listen to your show, to sign up for your event, to buy your thing. This is the post where you're asking people to do that, and by this time you have the right people that are like, oh, how cool you actually had an expert that comes on and talks all about how to post less on your podcast. Of course I want to listen to that. Gary, that sounds amazing. Right, sign me up.

Gary Pageau: 24:36

Right, and what you're saying is you're kind of playing into the biases of the platform, because that's what they want, right, they're seeing a more engaged post. They're not just seeing posts that are out there and getting no engagement, which is the problem that you're seeing with people who post a hundred times a week. Right, they're posting a lot but there's no engagement, so probably the platform's almost penalizing them in that regard.

Katie Brinkley: 25:00

And then too, like if you're asking people to go to a you know an outside link, you're asking people to leave that social media platform. They don't want people to leave their platform, they want them to stay on Facebook. They want them to stay on Instagram as long as possible. So this way you've already been showing up. You have the right people that are raising their hands, that are engaging with your posts, that are seeing it and saying, yeah, actually I'd love to have more information.

Gary Pageau: 25:26

Okay, because I mean, I know, when you do like, for example, we'll just we'll take Facebook, cause it's easy. There is, there is an, a way to. If you're creating Facebook posts and ads, you can say what do you want people to do? And it says go visit the website.

Katie Brinkley: 25:41

So there, yeah, this is all organic that I'm talking about.

Gary Pageau: 25:43

Yeah, but I'm saying I mean, you know, I guess at that point they're they're kind of okay with it. I don't think they're going to penalize you, but they probably want you to go to your Facebook business page, not your person, right? I mean that's really where they want you to live. So you're saying like how like we talked a little bit earlier about, like, the number of platforms that you can get on or whatever you know, but there's always new ones popping up Is there a value in just experimenting occasionally with these, or are you just saying just just stick with what works?

Katie Brinkley: 26:10

I mean, uh, clubhouse was great for me during the pandemic you know that that was like that audio. It was basically the podcast platform, um whatever happened to clubhouse. Is it even still around? It's still around, um, but I mean, yeah, it's, I'm not on it anymore, um, and I had, I think, over a hundred thousand followers right but I think that, um, I mean like there's Blue Sky, which is, you know, that decentralized kind of Twitter.

Katie Brinkley: 26:35

There's Skylight, which is kind of the decentralized TikTok. You know, there's always new platforms coming. Threads isn't going to go anywhere anytime soon because Mark Zuckerberg's backing it. I think you know it's. You don't need to be everywhere. Focus in on the ones that make the most sense for you and your business and the ones where you can actually create content consistently on. That's going to move the needle for you.

Gary Pageau: 27:02

Because I think that's one of the things people don't really understand is just how big the internet is for a lot of these things, and there are a lot of these kind of pocket niche communities, right, I mean, even when you get out of.

Gary Pageau: 27:14

So? I mean, reddit is a social community in a way, and you know you can be successful in that world, and you know people who have huge followers on Reddit probably don't even have a Facebook account. Yeah, how long should it take before someone starts seeing results with this? Because this is a, let's say, if you're building something organically, a social following, whatever you're not going to see results. You know right away. I mean, you may see improved results.

Katie Brinkley: 27:41

I'd say within the first month you'll be able to see results.

Gary Pageau: 27:44

Okay, so you so that quickly. That's awesome.

Katie Brinkley: 27:47

Yeah, I think that you know, and I've done some trainings for different communities on this and one of the coolest things is seeing, like, some of the shared screenshots and they've gotten, you know, 250% increase in engagements in the first, you know, two weeks. Right, a thousand percent increase in, you know, impressions in the first few weeks, you know. So it's a strategy that works. It's just it really is. It's an intentional strategy, right. Knowing exactly this is what I want to have happen. This is who this is for. How am I going to get there? Right?

Gary Pageau: 28:21

So where does YouTube fit into this? Or streaming? You know services right, because a lot of people use it to feed a social platform. Is it a separate thing? Or can you use YouTube the same way, because a lot of my audience have pretty large YouTube channels? They've got a lot of content there, but it's more of a library as opposed to a social network.

Katie Brinkley: 28:45

Yeah, I think that if you are creating any sort of video content or podcast content, anything like that, you should be on YouTube. I mean Google owns it and right now, like ChatGPT is like changing the game, but I mean, like right now Google is king, like there's been times, even in ChatGPT, where I've asked it a question and a YouTube video is given as a reference for it. So I mean, I think YouTube kind of all the social platforms, having some sort of a YouTube presence, is essential. It's essential Cool.

Gary Pageau: 29:16

Where can people go for more information on your four-step process? I'm not going to call it four-post, it's more of a four-step process, really. Yeah, to improve their social and get more information about you and listen to your podcast. That's out there.

Katie Brinkley: 29:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, if you like this podcast, which I'm sure you do, cause you tune into Gary every week. Um, I also have a podcast. It's called Rocky mountain marketing, and then, uh, where I talked about digital strategies, I have my book, the social shift, and then, if you want to uh connect more, you can go to uh katiebrinkleylive slash podcast newsletter and get notifications every time that the podcast drops.

Gary Pageau: 29:57

Nice. Well, great Katie, it's great to talk to you. I learned a lot. I got a lot of work to do now, but not too much work. But you've given me a checklist of things to do and I'm sure my Good, so I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you.

Erin Manning: 30:12

Thank you for listening to the Dead Pixels Society podcast. Read more great stories and sign up for the newsletter at www. thedeadpixelssociety. com.