The Dead Pixels Society podcast
News, information and interviews about the photo/imaging business. This is a weekly audio podcast hosted by Gary Pageau, editor of the Dead Pixels Society news site and community.
This podcast is for a business-to-business audience of entrepreneurs and companies in the photo/imaging retail, online, wholesale, mobile, and camera hardware/accessory industries.
If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, email host Gary Pageau at gary@thedeadpixelssociety.com. For more information and to sign up for the free weekly newsletter, visit www.thedeadpixelssociety.com.
The Dead Pixels Society podcast
Unlocking Team Performance with Brenda Neckvatal
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Imagine transforming your workplace into a high-performing, cohesive team where every member contributes meaningfully to your organization's success. That's exactly what Brenda Neckvatal, with more than 30 years of Fortune 500 HR experience, helps business owners achieve through her "human results" approach.
Neckvatal unpacks the delicate balance of team dynamics, comparing cohesion to an elastic band that stretches when individual performance wavers. She reveals how to catch performance issues early before that band becomes permanently damaged, sharing strategies that work across organizations of any size.
At the heart of high-performing teams lie core values that guide behavior and decision-making. "Never let good be the robber of great" exemplifies how a clear value statement can elevate performance across an entire organization. Neckvatal explains why these values must be lived, not just posted on office walls, particularly emphasizing trust as the foundation for all workplace relationships.
The conversation takes a practical turn as Neckvatal outlines her three-part communication framework: listen more than you talk, ask good questions to get good answers, and follow up consistently. These simple practices transform how leaders approach difficult conversations and performance issues, moving beyond the frustration of "employees today don't want to work" to create meaningful accountability.
Perhaps most valuable are Neckvatal's insights into managing today's workforce. Rather than lamenting generational differences, she provides actionable strategies for setting expectations and handling accountability conversations that respect employees while maintaining standards. Her "Hey Brenda Hotline" stories illustrate common leadership challenge
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Hosted and produced by Gary Pageau
Edited by Olivia Pageau
Announcer: Erin Manning
Welcome to the Dead Pixel Society podcast, the photo imaging industry's leading news source. Here's your host, Gary Pageau. The Dead Pixels Society podcast is brought to you by Advertek Printing and Independent Photo Imagers.
Gary Pageau:Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixel Society Podcast. I'm your host, Gary Pageau, and today we're joined by Brenda Neckvatal, who's a human results professional coming to us from Virginia Beach. Hi Brenda, how are you today?
Brenda Neckvatal:I'm good. How are you doing?
Gary Pageau:Good, good. That was kind of a long-winded introduction. To say that you are a professional who gets results out of humans, that's right. So how did you get started in that business? You are a professional who gets results out of humans, is that how? We that's right, that's right so how did you get started in that business?
Brenda Neckvatal:So I actually come from a 30-year plus tenured HR background, mostly existing in and actually working in high-performing teams. I've had the fortune and the privilege of working for six Fortune 500 companies at a wide variety of different levels throughout my entire career, so I've seen it done, I've been part of it, and now I get to take what I know and what I learned and actually help businesses figure out that people puzzle.
Gary Pageau:Which is a very complex puzzle these days, which I do want to get into. But when you talk about human results, what does that mean? Because you know you hear these phrases. I read a lot of business books and I'm sure you do too. You read the articles, the blogs, all that you know performance and KPIs and all these things people do. What's your definition? So we know what you and I are going to be talking about.
Brenda Neckvatal:Performance is a wide range. It can be just break down to the very basic expectations all the way up to, you know, being your absolute superstar. But even within that scale you're, you still have to have multiple people working with different individuals being cohesive together. And so if one person is struggling in a particular area that starts pulling cohesion apart, then unless it's caught in a timely manner, then what happens is that drag. It's like an elastic band, right, it's like a rubber band. It keeps stretching and stretching until something happens and it comes back together again. But eventually what happens is that stretch goes to the point where it's overstretched.
Brenda Neckvatal:So when you're talking about human results, we're talking about catching it early. What can you do to reverse it? We're looking at working with difficult people. We're looking at, you know, even people who are your steady eddies and your most stable, high performing, like everybody, at some point in time misses the mark. And so what does that mean? You know what happens when you have to deal with a really difficult personality, and that's that's where I get my phone call.
Brenda Neckvatal:So it's like my little hey Brenda hotline starts ringing Always it always, when I answer it, it's always like I got a guy or I have a woman that I'm working with, like it always starts that way, always. So yeah, my little, hey, brenda, hotline. That's when that thing starts going off. Then I know I'm actually dealing with something beyond what their comfort level is, or beyond what they know how to handle, when in fact they do know how to handle, when in fact they do know how to handle it, but they don't have clarity, they may not have the confidence to do so and all they're looking to do is get that cohesion back in place and make sure that that rubber band isn't stretching anymore. It's actually snapping back to where it needs to be so you've used that word a couple times.
Gary Pageau:Cohesion is that the goal Is that sort of where you think like the harmonious workplace is actually a better performing workplace.
Brenda Neckvatal:Ideally, yeah. I mean, when you know and here's the thing even within cohesion you can still have conflict, that is highly effective. So you can have people who are respective of one another sit there and say, I hear what you're saying, but I disagree, and the other person, instead of it going like the ego, coming right up and going wait a minute.
Brenda Neckvatal:I'm stepping in Right. Then now you've got somebody that's willing to talk and say okay, let's hear what you've got to say about this. Help me understand why you don't agree with that. So a lot of times you hear what you've got to say about this. Help me understand why you don't agree with that.
Gary Pageau:So a lot of times, you know you've got different areas where people are interacting with. You know, people brought into a team, right, you don't see an existing team and then, hey, we need another person. And then HR goes out and finds them and then brings them in and you know, but then HR doesn't deal with that person, right? So how can they improve that process of bringing someone into a team or creating a team from the onset? That will hopefully improve the cohesion, as opposed to, you know, hey, you know we need to fill a role. Here's a body.
Brenda Neckvatal:Well, to be honest with you, it doesn't start and finish in HR Team. Cohesion will always start and end with the value structure of the organization. Okay, so I'll give you an example. One of my mentors and this is a life mentor of mine everything that he does from leading his own family to leading multiple businesses, to leading all of his coaches, to leading it Like he, operates on a series of core values. Now, when I've worked for these fortune 500 companies, there were two very specific companies that were masters at doing exactly what my life mentor does, and that is operating an organization is solely based on core values.
Brenda Neckvatal:Operating an organization is solely based on core values, and so when you've got core values working for you, what's going to happen is that you're going to find alignment, and alignment is like one of the biggest stepping stones to cohesion. So I'll give you an example of what I mean by core values, and I'll use one of his core values. Everything that I do is all my decisions are based off of my core values. Now, my core values are not structured like his, but I love how he does it, so that's why I want to use his, so his number one core value that exists at the top of everything is never let good be the robber of great. It's just a magnificent one, right. It means that good is not enough in our organization. Step, take one percent, step more right right.
Brenda Neckvatal:They're just asking for one, not 12, not 52, one percent greater, right? So never let great rob you of your existence and your experience of greatness, right? That's the thing now, if you have somebody that thinks that that's a load of crap, right yeah which you're gonna have employees that come in and they're like what?
Gary Pageau:yeah, that's good enough. We can do that.
Brenda Neckvatal:You know we don't need to yeah you don't maybe necessarily have misalignment, but you definitely don't have that cohesion. People are not walking the same path Now. They may live that way, they just may not think that way. But the thing is is that, when it comes to bringing the right people in, your thoughts are actually going to dictate your actions moving forward. So if you're looking at somebody through a critical lens, you're always going to see somebody through a critical lens Like and that was my experience, it was my experience throughout the vast majority of my career I had managers who were looking at me constantly in a critical way and in their eyes, I was never going to step up and excel, even though I was constantly working on myself each and every single day, and the only way I got out of that situation was literally to leave Right. Right. So I had some opportunity, but it wasn't and it wasn't facilitated as a ceiling to getting myself up Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:So leaders think when they look at people in that way, they think it's like I'm controlling the situation, I'm controlling the environment, I'm actually keeping the right people in the right job, when in fact, what they're doing is they're actually stretching that rubber band without really even realizing it Right and ultimately what they're going to get is they're going to get people that look at that core value and go what the hell are they thinking? Because they're not living up to it Right, and it's a massive, massive aha thing that comes out when people realize that they're doing that when, fact, they should be doing something else. They should actually be leveraging employee assets daily, they should be maximizing it and literally allowing everybody who wants to thrive and succeed a full runway to do that, albeit guided right. Don't let them go all lacy fair on you, but you know there's just so many different things. So when we look at the theory of human results like what I talk about is that we're looking at, what are you doing to actually maximize that ability to lead your people?
Brenda Neckvatal:Leverage employee assets daily right. Lead L, e, a, d. What are you doing to make that happen? And how are we eliminating these little road bumps and and the things that are getting in, the obstacles that are popping up for you? And and I promise you, I've been down this road myself, I've gone through all of this critical work that I can tell you nine times out of 10, they're self-imposed.
Gary Pageau:So you know, I've had a few guests on in the past who have talked about, you know, core values and things. But a lot of times, you know, when I talk to my audience they're like well, you know, I'm just trying to, you know, get the store open every day and turn on the printer and everything right, you know, I mean.
Gary Pageau:You know they got the day-to-day fires to put out and it's hard to deal with. You know the promise of a core value right, which may be a, you know, in the Pavlov's hierarchy of needs, you know it's way up there into self-actualization, whereas down below it's like my printer didn't show up this morning that's the day-to-day need, so obviously stuff happens. How do you recommend to somebody who is, let's say, they got 20, 30, 40 employees they're not a Fortune 500 company, but it's a decent-sized business Staying on that focus of reminding themselves of their core values?
Brenda Neckvatal:because you can get dragged down into the day-to-day and lose sight of it. Well, that's the thing, yeah, and that's the thing is that those core values really are something that should be alive, and I'll give you, I'll give you a really simple example of it. So you've heard of patrick lencioni's five dysfunctions of a team, right? Absolutely yeah when you look at that period, what is that foundation, that very, very bottom first rung on that period?
Gary Pageau:Well, it's been a while since I read the book, so you may want to share what you're looking at.
Brenda Neckvatal:So the very foundation of a functioning team, and even a dysfunctioning team, is based off of the value of trust period. So you gave me a really great example. It's like they're into the day to day, right, they want to show up to work and their printer doesn't show up. It's like, well, that trust now has been eroded.
Gary Pageau:Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:Right. And here's the secret about trust Trust builds like raindrops in a bucket, like almost, like trust drops Right. And so that bucket, if it is tipped over because somebody doesn't come in when they know that they're supposed to, if it is tipped over because somebody doesn't come in when they know that they're supposed to Right, or they're not coming in on a regular basis, that foundation, that value of trust, that starts to get knocked down Right and that does eat at the heart and soul of a business owner. Because I'm telling you right now, other than your own kids, your dog and your cat and your horse or whatever value pet that you have, there's nothing that you put more energy into other than your own business. Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:Really that you have there's nothing that you put more energy into other than your own business. Right, Really Right. So you're living your core values, whether you realize it or not. Even if you don't even articulate them, you're still living them and more often than not, somebody's core value is going to hit that trust right.
Brenda Neckvatal:Trust is nothing else is going to happen unless you have trust period Right. So if you're working at building trust, then you're essentially living within the construct of your core value. I trust that you're going to be here. I trust that you're going to get the job done. I'm going to trust that you're not taking money out of the cash register. I'm also trusting that you're not stealing my customers and my business from me because you now have a peek behind the scenes, right Trust.
Gary Pageau:But part of that obligation, though, is the fact that the owner themselves has to live up to that right.
Brenda Neckvatal:Absolutely.
Gary Pageau:You know, I mean, that's the thing is. You know, when you hear the stories of, you know the kids today don't want to work or whatever. Is that because people don't want to work, or is it because you're hiring badly or you're not modeling the behavior that you want your own employees to have?
Brenda Neckvatal:It's a combination in today's world of all three. We do not have people in this world right now that have the kind of skill set that we had 30, 40 years ago. For those of you who don't know like, we were joking around earlier and he was asking me about you know, like, how comfortable you are? I told him. I said I'm a one take Osmond, right. If you've grown up in our era, you understand that Donnie and Maria Osmond did everything by one take, just like the Jacksons did. Right, they had to do everything by one take. That was the expectation of their household that they didn't. There were sharp consequences to that. All that surface later on in life.
Brenda Neckvatal:But that was also a work value that we were taught growing up. We didn't have remotely close to anything that people have in today's work environment. We had bosses. We absolutely had bosses and our bosses. When they taught us how to work, they said this is what you're going to do. You're going to do it time and time again and if you don't like it, there's the door. Don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out, right, right. In today's world we don't have that anymore. So there is a lack, of lack of a better word. Discipline. That's going on. We were disciplined into doing our job. We had high expectations with high consequences that came with that. Now I'm not saying that that doesn't exist in today, but our culture has shifted. Our culture in world history has consistently shifted over the decades and the eons. Right, this is just our next iteration of it. So it gives us more challenges to find people, but ultimately, those individuals likely don't have that because that's just not how the world is in today. Right, but are they trainable?
Gary Pageau:Sure.
Brenda Neckvatal:Yeah, they are. Can you set those expectations with high consequences and teach people that you come in? Hey, this is how we do things. This is what I expect. Right, I'm going to follow up with you on this to make sure that you're doing it, and if you're not, you know what. We're going to help you get back on track. If you still aren't doing it, the conversation is going to be a little bit different, and then we're going to give you the choice. Do you really want to be here or not? Right, right, you'll be amazed at how many people will actually take that and go. You know what? Nobody's ever actually talked to me that way before Right, and treated me like an adult, and not everybody is going to embrace that. The goal will always be is finding the people in place to actually do the job that you need them to do, and are they going to do it within the core value structure that you got?
Gary Pageau:That, I think, is the first reference to Donny Marie Osmond on this podcast.
Gary Pageau:So you went on that one Because I think there is some sort of especially in our industry. Right, because a lot of the people who run the photo labs and the camera stores and whatnot are, you know, people, you know, middle-aged and higher in many cases, right, so they may not have the. The patience, I think, is what you're talking about to actually have to grow some of the skills of some of the folks, because you said, I mean, they are trainable, they want to, because obviously they've applied to a job maybe they weren't doing a paper route when they were 14, like a lot of people were or, you know, doing babysitting jobs or whatever, where you kind of get your first taste of consequences. Right, if I don't ship, I don't deliver the papers, I don't get paid, right, yeah, what is some advice you have for somebody who's kind of in that space where you know you're looking at, you know, let's say, you do have the core value piece, right, and you are doing that, but you know you have to communicate that consistently.
Brenda Neckvatal:You nailed it right on the head. That's exactly where I was going to go. It's the communication piece of it, and there's three things that I teach people how to effectively communicate right. It's either when you're dealing with a crisis, when you're, you know, talking about an expectation, when somebody's made a mistake and you need to figure out what's going on, when you've got two people that are just like banging heads. It's the same process for everything, and the first one is that you have to listen more and talk less, and the reason why I say that is because you're going to learn a lot. You're going to learn a lot more than always being the one I'm going to tell you right now, people who are constantly the ones.
Brenda Neckvatal:The leaders are the ones who are always talking. Their words are being swept away by the wind.
Brenda Neckvatal:Listening actually draws forward the information that you need in order to keep people it's like a soccer game right. Keep that ball out on the field and when you see one of player's going out of bounds, you get them back in again. Just by doing it that way, okay. The next thing is is that when you have to ask, when you ask questions, ask good questions and you're going to get good information back. Ask good questions, you're going to get good answers. If you ask bad questions, you're not going to get what you want right. And asking good questions doesn't necessarily mean that you always know the answer to them, but what it does is it actually facilitates people, bringing you the information that you need in order to work through the situation, not fix it. Work through it Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:And then, lastly, the power of your leadership where you are going to reign supreme will always lie in your follow up, and follow-up isn't just checking to make sure somebody's doing something. Follow-up is also if the person has self-corrected or corrected because of your guidance. That acknowledgement is like hey, that is exactly what I wanted you to do. Thank you so much way to go. Keep doing, doing it. That's perfect. What you did was perfect and you should feel really good about that. Right, that's follow up.
Brenda Neckvatal:And if you do those three things consistently right then you're always going to have people problems, you're always going to have process problems, always Right, yeah, you can't. You know, and it's really funny because years ago, when I first started, I was screwing something up in my head. I'm like, okay, I fixed this problem because I'm a problem fixer. Right, I went and fixed this problem, had the conversation with a person, boom, done, not going to happen again. Right, when, in fact, what I should have been doing is realizing is that I'm going to have this conversation, I'm going to reset the expectation. Today's a new day and then you know what we're going to check with them tomorrow to make sure that what I put into place sticks.
Gary Pageau:Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:Right and I don't really have to do anything more beyond that, because if it's sticking, then it's working. Then problem solved Right. If it's not sticking, that means I got a bigger problem and now I've done so much footwork already that addressing the problem, moving forward eventually will come down to choice. You either want to be here and play the game or you don't. That's fine. Whatever you want to do, congratulations, we love you. Go on, find your happiness somewhere else, right.
Gary Pageau:One of the challenges you kind of hit on there, though, is today's hiring environment. I think some people always say you know at least this person's here. There may be a problem in my lab or in my store. At least they're here and they don't want to deal with that problem of maybe having to invite someone to apply somewhere else, as they say when is the point when you have to make that decision?
Gary Pageau:Because you know, I think in most cases when you get to that point, it shouldn't be a surprise. That person should know they're on a path right of non-performance, right. So. But when do you start having those conversations?
Brenda Neckvatal:Early, and often, yeah, and you know, what a lot of people do is that I see, and this is when the Brenda, hey, you know, the hey hotline starts working right Is that they have now allowed the behavior to go on for a long time. And I'll be honest with you, back in the early two thousands, the vast majority of questions on my hey Brenda hotline that would come up were mostly it's like well, he's got a bad attitude and I want the attitude to change. And I'm like why are you focusing on attitude? Because you can't change that right, what it's even. Trust me, and if you don't believe me, just tell a screaming four-year-old that they have a bad attitude and watch the magic happen, right, right, watch the meteors fall from the sky. But when you focus on somebody's behavior, right.
Brenda Neckvatal:In today's world? Yeah, we've got still attitude stuff, but really what more people are like? They're dialing in on behavior, like they don't want to be here, they don't want to work, they don't want to. Part of it, I'm going to be totally honest with you. Part of it, is that our frontline employees, the people that we are steady eddies, the people that we need boots on the ground all the time being client facing, they are conditioned for a couple of things. Number one the cell phone has replaced pretty much every appliance in the world except your refrigerator and your oven. But what it's also done is it is also taught them that there's such thing as instant gratification.
Gary Pageau:Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:And that is not real, right, right. So there's that. That's a challenge. And then the other thing is is that they also are learning that everybody can have a side hustle, and every side hustle will make you a grandiose millionaire.
Gary Pageau:Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:That also is not the case too. So, in my opinion, opinion this generation is going to have to shake that off. They're going to have to learn those hard lessons they're going to have to go through. The sad part of it is is that they're going to be 10, 15 years behind in the skill gap right compared to people that go.
Brenda Neckvatal:I'm putting my damn phone down, I'm focusing in on what I need to do here right now and not falling victim to the instant gratification that is kind of part of this generation, this rising generation of employees. By the time they get to be 35, 40 years old, they're going to realize as not the case, right, right, and there's nothing wrong with that. Those are the lessons that they're going to learn.
Gary Pageau:Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:Every generation has them Right. No-transcript. This is what I want my employees to look like, because when you think a certain way, you are in fact affecting your future. It's almost like calling it into existence.
Brenda Neckvatal:But, just because you write it down, just because you're clear on it, doesn't mean it's going to happen overnight. Those things do happen. They're the exception and not the rule. But you at least now know hiring and dating they're so similar they really are. And when you, when you're talking to somebody and you're asking them questions that help you understand how they're going to behave through something, and you see them again when you talk, listen more and talk less, you're actually learning, because they're telling you everything, okay, and then they're also telling the things that they're not willing to tell you. They're saying what they're not wanting to say.
Brenda Neckvatal:You pick up on those things, right, you get a sense. It's like okay, so I think I can work with this person over the next six to nine months. I think I can get them to where I need them to be. And then you have to commit to it. You absolutely have to commit to it, right? If you don't commit to it and you just let them flap like a flag in the wind, that's all you're going to get. You're going to get a tattered piece of cloth.
Gary Pageau:You know it's interesting. You mentioned that. It gets back to, I think, what you were saying before about listening right, listening more than you're talking right.
Brenda Neckvatal:Absolutely. I mean, you're listening for the things that they handling the cash. There's some people that don't like handling the cash. There are people that are really great at figuring out your it issues, and then there's some people that can barely get their way out of a paperback. I mean, it's just we're all wired differently and not and none of it's bad. It's just we're all extremely different. Visionary leaders they look at the world as a stratosphere and you're like, can you calm down now for a minute, cause I need to talk to you about something serious. And then you've got your operational people who are extremely firmly grounded right.
Gary Pageau:Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:Like they're only looking at things between 5,000 to 30,000 feet. You just have to figure out how the people are a puzzle. You just have to figure out how can I take everything that they're good at and apply it towards my business, and if you look at them every day that way, you're not going to see them, as the checklist isn't being done. They're deficient in this area. You need to know that that's not their strong point.
Gary Pageau:Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:And if they're not showing up, reliability is not their strong point.
Gary Pageau:Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:Right, it's a really good example.
Gary Pageau:So what do you do in that case? I mean, you've hired someone for a job and for a position, a role you want to fill. Then you're finding out that reliability is not their standpoint, right. Or maybe, in the case of you know a print lab, they're not so great on quality control, right? So what do you do?
Brenda Neckvatal:You got to figure out what is at the heart of it. Right, because there's a couple of things that you can fix. You can fix the amount of knowledge. So if it's because they need some more training, if they're doing it because they didn't know something, that's an easy fix right, you fill that gap. If it's something to where they just don't have the skill set for it, that's easy to fix, is because they have the gap. If it's anything else other than that, other than those two things, it's because there's something inside of them that they are not connecting to in this business and right and maybe they need to be invited to go, you know, apply their skills elsewhere maybe, but the very first thing is is and this is always the big miss is that leaders don't set the expectation.
Gary Pageau:Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:Right, they immediately do exactly what you did. Well, maybe this person shouldn't be here. Well, how many times did you set the expectation? How many times did you reinforce it?
Gary Pageau:Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:And in what time frame?
Gary Pageau:Sure.
Brenda Neckvatal:Did you do it once when they first started, and now we're doing it again, nine months later, when it's a day-to-day thing, right? Or is it like, as soon as you see it, it's not being met? Let's get them to correct and set the expectations, like, if you're not doing this, I expect you to course correct and if you have questions, I'm here. You know, let me know. What do you need to be successful in this area? Right? People will look at you like you've got three heads, because you're not used to being talked to that way.
Gary Pageau:Well, I was going to say, wouldn't they? Wouldn't the response to some of those be hey, you know you're micromanaging me.
Brenda Neckvatal:Stop hovering. No, that's what I'm talking about is trust, but verify. Right. Micromanaging is when. I'll give you a really good example. I'm on a phone call. I've got a very sensitive issue. I've got my door shut. I'm working my way through this problem and the president of the company is standing outside of your door reminding you of your meeting that's starting in five minutes, right? And then you don't answer the door and then they knock again and you're on the phone for 20 minutes and they're standing at the door waiting for you to come. That's micromanaging that does not work. Right, minutes and they're standing at the door waiting for you to come that's micromanaging. That does not work right. But when you see something that's not happening, like if you're telling somebody to do something that they're already doing or they're fixing to do and they're not given the chance, that's micromanaging right. However, if you are addressing the gaps, that's not micromanaging, because I think a lot of people would be if you're accusing, not micromanaging, because I think a lot of people would be.
Gary Pageau:If you're accusing them of micromanaging, they're not, they're just. No, I'm just providing feedback Because I always tie micromanaging almost to the lack of trust.
Brenda Neckvatal:That is what motivates micromanagement. However, there's also something else that motivates micromanagement, and that's, quite frankly, the person not doing the job Right, and that's, quite frankly, the person not doing the job Right. So, when you get to a point where somebody is not doing it after being instructed three times within a reasonable time period, you have two choices. You can either micromanage that person and wind up spending 14 percent of your annual time dealing with a frontline issue, or you can just say you have a choice right now and there are times where I've done this and it is extremely effective but you also have to really know when to play this card. You've had the conversation with somebody. You're on the fourth conversation. If you go beyond three, this is when the fourth one kicks in.
Brenda Neckvatal:Okay, I need you to help me understand. Do you want to be here to do this work? Because if you don't, I'm great if you make that decision right now, but if you decide to stay, here's what I expect. The choice is 100% yours. Go Like you. Tell me what you want to do, because we're only going to do this for five more minutes.
Gary Pageau:Right.
Brenda Neckvatal:What that person is saying. Holy crap. Now my welfare is like totally on the line, and now it's up to me.
Gary Pageau:There's a little secret about people.
Brenda Neckvatal:People secretly love power and people will secretly love to not think that you like that power. So when you're giving them a choice, what you're doing is you're giving them power back, but it's a limited amount of power. In the scope of it, they have the power to make the decision right then and there and what it is that they want to do. Right. That's accountability.
Gary Pageau:So you're saying people, if properly set up or framed, will actually want to take accountability. They'll like it. But they have to be set up in a proper way, right? You can't just drop it on them and say, there you go. You got to have three to four steps leading up to it so they know it's coming, so they can kind of see it coming over the hill yeah, I mean it's.
Brenda Neckvatal:It's a conditioning, it's a learning right, and this is not what a lot of people are used to in today's environment, but this is exactly what we grew up with right you know, and it's still effective today, as it was 30, 40, 50, 70, 80, 100 years ago so do you think that it's?
Gary Pageau:it's the technology that's changed or what? Because I mean, like you said, we've all been there, we've, all you know, gone into a retail store or someplace and you know the person behind the counter, instead of greeting the greeting customers, is, you know, scrolling instagram or doing selfies or something right, is it?
Brenda Neckvatal:I'm just curious, because I don't see that going away like smart no, you're right gonna disappear, so you're right, it's a there's a cultural shift in the world, but let me tell you something. I just got off, in december, I was on my very first cruise. There wasn't a person on the cruise ship you're talking about. Our volume was 3,500 people, max capacity on on my, on the ship that I was on, which means that they need about 1,600 to 1,800 employees. There wasn't a single, not one. Not even the guys who come out with a spray bottle or rag and they're cleaning the letters on the wall to help you know where you are right. There was a single person that wasn't willing to help you out, wasn't willing to say hello, was unbelievably friendly, right, right, accommodating, joyous, like they were happy to to be able to meet and at least get and help you solve your problem, right, not one. All the way from the captain to the guys that were slinging the lines on the side of the ship not one. And I talked to I couldn't even tell you how many people I talked to and my friend that was with me. She kept watching me. She was it's amazing watching you. Just like engage with people.
Brenda Neckvatal:I said I'm curious where they're from. They say they're from africa. I want to know about it right, not a single person. So you can't tell me, on a secluded ship with all those people that are on board, when you've got cantankerous customers and people who are drunk and hung over and they just want to be left alone or they want everything you know served to. There's a wide variety of people on a ship. The entire staff holds to the same level of expectation. Doesn't matter if it's a Fortune 500 company or a large company or whatever. That's just on one ship, it's out there.
Erin Manning:It can be done.
Brenda Neckvatal:Those people are out there, I promise.
Gary Pageau:It can be done.
Brenda Neckvatal:It absolutely can be done. You spend a week on a cruise ship and you will understand that in seven days you'll get it like there are people that are still out there.
Gary Pageau:Well, that's cool. So where can people go for more information about Brenda and all the cool things? I mean, have you published the hey Brenda hotline?
Brenda Neckvatal:Yeah, I know, I should get that URL, shouldn't I? So, actually, the easiest way to find me and this is funny because my business partner, my business partner does this when he gets on the phone, he says yo, that's how he says hi. So I came up with yo brendacom, because it's a lot easier than trying to spell my last name. If you go to yo brendacom, I'm actually going to give you guys something that is going to help and you can put it to work immediately, right? So, when you want more clarity out of your leadership, you want more cohesion. It's going to help you build more confidence, and this is something that I call impact scripts. If you want to start making an impact to your team, making an impact to your day, so you don't feel like you know you're jumping through hoops and solving everybody's problems. This is going to help you achieve that. Listen more, talk less it's going to help you achieve. Ask good questions You're going to help you achieve that. Listen more, talk less it's going to help you achieve.
Brenda Neckvatal:Ask good questions You're going to get good answers, especially that one. Ok, and so impact. So if you go to your Brenda dot com, what you're going to do is you put in your name, you put in your email and it's going to ask you a question.
Brenda Neckvatal:It's going to ask you what was the one thing that wowed you? Today, you're going to be able to take the course. It's totally free, 100%. And these are my three top phrases that I use all the time, especially when I'm dealing with difficult people, and I'll give you an example of one of them. You ever have that one person that comes in and that's constantly telling you about how bad Bob is. And Bob sucks, and you know Bob's thinking this about you and Bob thinks that you're doing because you know you make this decision and all of a sudden, because Bob it's like well, how do you know what's on Bob's mind, right? So now you've got a conflict with Bob.
Brenda Neckvatal:One of the things that I have when people who are just so caught up into this thing, I'll ask them why do you believe that is? Why do you believe it is that Bob doesn't like you? Why do you believe that Bob is intentionally setting out to make your life a living hell? Help me understand that. Right, that is a great question, because what it does is it pulls the person's ego out of the conversation, right? And it requires them to give you information, if it's something. Because Bob has told me he doesn't like me. Bob is telling me that he doesn't like the smell of my perfume because Bob is telling me that he's, you know, done something stupid to my coffee Right now.
Brenda Neckvatal:You got something to work with, right. But if they keep coming out and say, well, it's just because this is how he is and this is how he approaches and this is what I'm like, ok, now that's ego, because that's somebody trying to interpret something that actually isn't really happening Right Now. You know what you're dealing with. You're either dealing with drama or you're dealing with real facts, right. So let's take your example earlier of the person coming in late, right, your printer not showing up the next time they come in is help me understand why you are not coming into work on time. And then you shut up. And it's amazing because it will force them to answer the question without this ego getting in the way and without all of this cultural shift stuff that's coming in and all of these lame excuses. Right, they'll try the lame excuse, but that is a hard conversation for them to beat.
Gary Pageau:Right. Well, yeah, I've heard the latest is time blindness that now people are afflicted with time blindness. Right, they can't judge time, so they are always late, right.
Brenda Neckvatal:You know, every second grader knows how to read a damn clock these days. Every phone has an alarm clock. Yeah, I mean, I swear to God, iphone has replaced Mickey Mouse watches. I mean, I swear to God, iphone has replaced Mickey Mouse watches, exactly.
Gary Pageau:So everyone needs to go to YoBrenda that's Y-O-Brenda. com to get these three powerful statements that people can learn. Well, thank you, Brenda, for your time. It's been great. Thank you for bringing back the memories of Donnie and Marie Osmond and learning more about how to manage people in this very fraught time. So thank you so much.
Brenda Neckvatal:Thank you for having me on, I appreciate it.
Erin Manning:Thank you for listening to the Dead Pixels Society podcast. Read more great stories and sign up for the newsletter at wwwthedeadpixelssocietycom.
